BIM and Asset Management with Bryan Tay

Andrea Ciaffi

Hi Brian. Welcome to the Digital Construction podcast. Are you today?

Bryan

Hi Andrea, I'm. I'm well and thank you so much for having me today.

Andrea Ciaffi

Variant A has a fantastic career at the. It works as a principal digital engineer at Arkadas, but he also worked as a digital engineering lead in user 12th in Australia. He is so much knowledge around the asset management and I'm so excited Brian, to speak to you today.

Andrea Ciaffi

So we can share all of your knowledge with with our.

Bryan

So super excited.

Andrea Ciaffi

Thank you, Brian. So just to start, let's start with a couple of Ice Breakers and then. Can start talking about the city. But if you could take a road trip to anywhere in the world, where would you go? And what's your must have?

Andrea Ciaffi

Travel snack. Oh.

Bryan

Do love the cold. I do like to see. It's something that we don't really get here down in Australia or especially over in Perth. So I would say a road trip. I would would like to go somewhere cold and have a road trip up in the in the mountains to go skiing and what have you.

Bryan

And based on the travel snack, it's not a snack per SE, but I would make sure I'll bring my coffee. I will have my coffee beans and then my grinder. To make sure I have my coffee on the go because over in my family I'm not allowed to drive until I have my first cup of coffee.

Andrea Ciaffi

And it's probably something that keeps you warm if you're in the snow and you make sure you need to make sure it doesn't freeze. You will have a. That's it.

Bryan

That's. Well, you can then check it in ice cream as well. When you're out there, put some ice in it. Yeah, that's great.

Andrea Ciaffi

That's nice if we can have a nice coffee. OK, another icebreaker. If you could have any superpower to make a construction project go perfectly. That's very hard. What would it be? What type of superpower?

Bryan

I think that's a tricky one to make a construction project go perfectly, I would say. Being able to teleport or fly now bear with me for a second. OK. It's not a bad I guess there is so many places, especially when you want to get a project moving.

Bryan

I would say that being able to go in face to face and be able to travel quickly from back in the office and to site to be able to help as many people along the journey. To help facilitate those projects, is is where I would say could be very, very useful.

Andrea Ciaffi

It looks like you are drawn.

Bryan

Especially. A. Yeah, well, an. So you can be well, sorry, a robot. AI robot. You can be in multiple places at once.

Andrea Ciaffi

Nice, nice. Yeah. Thank you for. So for those who are not as familiar. With your history and your career, can you start telling us a little bit of a little bit more about your journey and yeah, all the process and how you become a digital?

Andrea Ciaffi

Engine.

Bryan

No. Yeah. No, that's long. Well, Long story short, I have to say we I started my career in 2014 where I graduated from UWA and during that period as as some may know the morning. The morning wasn't doing too well when I was just after that boom and then, and it was on on the downward trend, so.

Bryan

I was looking for opportunities and started my career actually in Singapore where I wrote a couple of articles where they were actually pumping a lot of infrastructure or money into infrastructure to do the underground train station, which at the point was the Thomson East Coast line.

Bryan

So I. My career there as a structural engineer. And I was supporting the design and construction of four underground train stations at that time. From there I moved over to Perth after working in Singapore, moved over to Perth and worked on. The Kinana S freeway.

Bryan

Worked there as a design instructor engineer. And adds on the. Can't leave gantries. You see the South River? Then I had moved over to Sydney and that's where I really dive into the D space. Throughout the whole process I have been involved with a lot of the digital engineering components of it.

Bryan

Per SE. And I'll touch a little bit more on that later. Then I actually worked at Arab as a the lead for NSW. Before I decided to move into something a little bit more turbulent and exciting, a small design consulting firm which which I I worked with Digitalise consultant during that period.

Bryan

Then I made my way back home to Perth. Couldn't couldn't get enough of. Had enough of Sydney and wanted to get back home where my family was. So now I work at Arcadis as a digital engineering manager and lead for for WA. I'm a chartered engineer by trade.

Bryan

And officially moved the digital engineering space. For over five years.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah. Thank. It's it sounds like a a very common career for those people that are in this space, like international career. Where we founded the best eggs in in these companies like and and we see what they can do in the digital space.

Andrea Ciaffi

And you're certainly one of those champions for a digital space in the construction industry. I'm very excited to have this shot with with you today. Can you share with us a couple of projects you've been working on in the past? Know you. You know, it's all about projects.

Andrea Ciaffi

At the end of the day, when it? It's all about buildings and construction and projects, so he shared with us a couple of titles.

Bryan

Yeah. Yes. I touched on a few when I was given that introduction. The ones in Singapore was Thompson East. So those are the first few projects I dealt. That actually started using. BIM and that was 400 Grand train stations. That's where I got well involved in in dealing with rule based clash detection utilising Saliba.

Bryan

Then I actually moved. So according that design, I'm calling that project over there. I moved over to Perth. Was when I worked on the Kwinana S freeway. On top of being the structural designer on that project, I also dealt with parametric modelling. Where I picked that up where I connected the parametric models.

Bryan

Through not only the documentation which we at that point was Tecla along with the actual structural design which. Is. DSA the architectural analysis. So I could remember that correctly. Been a while. So and then it had a perfect loop back into spreadsheets, which had all the calculations and we worked out the optimization from there and then reran those calculations that fit into those.

Bryan

Those. Then I did a research project when I was over at Sydney. As a consultant for transfer News of Wales. And that's where I dive into how RFC works under the hood. Understanding the geometry definitions that were utilized by various different software providers.

Bryan

Understanding intricacies around the exporter and the importer. And and and understood and created report for for transfer news of Wales and their various stakeholders.

Bryan

I guess those are the significant projects in that space and on top of that, I was the transportation, the manager transport on projects such as M6, Stage 1, Grayson Highway where we adapted and applied the framework that was established from these mega projects so.

Bryan

Holistically that's, that's where at.

Andrea Ciaffi

And I mean.

Bryan

Perth there's a couple more projects like Metronet VRE, but I think I'll leave it there unless we go on.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, it's another. It's another Andy Cena and the list. Like you know, we know, like I'm sure your CV will have a very, very long list of even like smaller projects that if you compare with this big big one mega projects, sometimes it's very hard.

Andrea Ciaffi

To share the food list, but thank you for sharing these ones.

Bryan

No. Sometimes the small ones are the ones where you do the most meaningful work too, so that's not forget that.

Andrea Ciaffi

True. That's. That's true. So let's get into into the main topic of for today, which is beam digital and asset management. We all know that beam is used during the design phase. Coordination phase as well, but from your point of view, how can we use beam beyond just design and coordination and to support the asset management?

Bryan

So yes, I completely agree with. Design construction is where majority of the time we are utilizing and engaging with the BIM aspect of documentation. But from my experience working with the asset owner organizations and mainly in the infrastructure space, I've had the opportunity to get a glimpse of of what they actually utilize.

Bryan

Well, the information from the BIM to actually support the asset management processes and look, they are maturing in this space at this point in time. But to support asset management, BIM has valuable information that could be utilized to then map and feed into the asset databases that asset owners have.

Bryan

But it it it's it's I guess from that perspective it is also important to realize that I mean BIM has originated from the building space and how building asset owners are applying this term technology. Maybe a little bit different from the infrastructure. Hmm.

Bryan

So let me give you, let me give you an over. Building and I have maybe 5-6 or maybe 10 different buildings in My Portfolio. And BIM could be a virtual transferred I guess, into a virtual representation of what that asset looks like. Go in.

Bryan

We maintain that asset and plug and play. We take out components. We maintain them, putting more information in. Or we even revamping new systems, taking old ones out and re implementing a new HVAC system. Well, then you look at an example where the roads and highways aspect, you would have a multitude of highways.

Bryan

Assets along the road and it's a very different aspect because they are dealing with longitudinal assets which. Chop and change a lot in the in into into the future. So those aspects is is is the important thing where? What exactly do they need from the outputs from the BIM models?

Bryan

That I I guess that's that's where they can, I guess use and support that asset management space is the information within it. But in certain cases certain different asset owners, they may use a little bit more, maybe the geometries as well.

Andrea Ciaffi

You know, I I agree. And it's also very interesting to hear your your point of view, your opinion, because sometimes like if you speak with one asset manager, they will have one point of view on how they specifically do that specific one thing.

Andrea Ciaffi

Like speaking with you, you had a you had a push me to to speak with multiple asset managers to support them in different ways. You had an opportunity to see how different people work in this space. Thanks for sharing that. From your point of view, what are the actual benefits from?

Andrea Ciaffi

For asset managers, if they actually decide to integrate beam in their workflows. We know the industry sometimes can be. People are familiar with the things that they've done before. They want to keep on doing the same thing. So over and over and over.

Andrea Ciaffi

They sometimes people are resistant to change, but there is there is real benefit and also to be fair, beam is so flexible. That sometimes could be challenging to understand how to actually how do we actually practically implement certain solutions. So from your point of view, what are the key benefits for asset owners?

Bryan

I guess we I would like to encourage us to kind of explore. What is beneficial for the asset owners and how they actually intend or could interact with these outputs through the BIM process? What information do they need and and and how does that information stand to benefit their actual business processes now let's say?

Bryan

They are tracking. A particular asset type. Which would mean barriers, roads, curbs and how do they actually interact with their work orders, their maintenance teams to actually say, right, head down and actually go for the maintenance of these assets that I've listed within my register.

Bryan

And then how do I feed that information back into my system so that I can actually? Trace and maintain those assets with the information that we need. So understanding the process and business processes around how they maintain their assets. We're able to get a little bit better understanding of how then do we connect it to our BIM work flows.

Bryan

So it's not a simple statement that that. We can integrate BIM 2 set degree, but let's think about how we can actually benefit from what is being developed for what is initially built for construction. What information is there that we can actually then transfer and and connect to the asset maintenance space?

Bryan

That being said, I would think of, you know handover of asset information, the classification and and actually tying it to their systems. How quickly and how easily can we say, right, you have these many assets that have been designed. And then. And how does that then integrate to their system so it can get into their business or their maintenance database so they can then run their maintenance?

Bryan

More effectively and and and and not have assets that may sit outside of the database. And. Then you've got. Potential for forecasting maintenance. You know, if you can tell what the asset type is, the benefit could be that they could ascertain. What their potential maintenance costs could be into the.

Bryan

So if they have capital expenditure of you know, 6 mega projects that they are looking to try to build. Have they correctly considered what that forecasted? Costs could be downstream. And whether they budget that correctly. So I guess these are only two of the examples that people may have many more, but.

Bryan

Hopefully from that you can see that certain information like the classification, the quantities these could facilitate activities that asset mate managers could really benefit from.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah. No, it's a very good point. It's you're. It's a case by case situation because different teams may have different work flows or potentially use different. Software and a different type of design work with different companies that have set up their B models in a different.

Andrea Ciaffi

So yeah, it's a case by case scenario, but the opportunity is that and people like you can help them understand how to actually solve these problems.

Bryan

Exactly. And and it will be different for different. How they use what databases they use, how they actually interact, information, and how they actually classify what are maintainable asset is. It's.

Andrea Ciaffi

Hmm. Yeah, very good point. So then shifting gear and how we are talking about the opportunities, but let's let's focus for a second for one second on the challenges and the pain point was hard. So from your point of view, what are some of the challenges?

Andrea Ciaffi

That companies face when they try to connect beam to asset management workflows.

Bryan

What are some of the challenges companies face? I think the biggest challenge is again and I reiterate is, is understanding what truly acid owners need. Is it a full-fledged high detailed? BIM model output to facilitate their maintenance processes. Or is it just simply a select few of information that we include in that workflow to then facilitate their maintenance processes and tracking of those assets?

Bryan

So I think the challenges face is that we asset owners don't really, and maintainers don't typically come to the party earlier on during the discussions when the projects are kicking off, they're they're always initially seen as A at the end of the stage.

Bryan

Just to to hand over information. So appreciation of how asset maintainers use their information to maintain their assets. As I said before, the work orders, you know, do they be? Good example would be. To talk about the idea of the minimum maintainable item.

Bryan

Now it's a terminology used over a use of Wales. But. Essentially, if you think about it, it's I'll give you an example of a lighting pole. Lighting pole may be made of multiple components. Foundation, the pole, the light bulb. And maybe maybe some other.

Bryan

The covers of the lighting pole and I guess all those could be treated as a separate, maintainable item. Or do they actually treat that entire pole when they send out a work order as a single asset? Now a minimum maintainable item will then reflect on the asset label or asset ID.

Bryan

Some people call them to actually appropriate a single line item as a maintainable asset when it comes out of that bin model and into their systems. So that these business rules and business processes need to be very clear with industry and with the people actually inputting the information.

Bryan

You know if they they're unaware of these intricacies of business processes that. A poll is single, a single maintainable. Then we don't get useful. That then could be beneficial for those. You might be counting 6 light poles instead of one when they have treated it as a single one.

Bryan

Another example would be the barrier. You know you may have multiple posts in a rail and multiple rails, but. Do they treat their start and end of the barriers as one? Table item. These are the questions that we need to ascertain before we start impuding valuable or before we can derive and get valuable information for the asset owners.

Bryan

There's also challenges we face is is stuff that they have within their system, their location references and asset references. So just to differentiate the referencing and classification. Referencing maybe an internal database system to allow them to locate their asset and well locate their asset and also identify what the asset is.

Bryan

While the classification that we typically deal with within the BIM space talks about a breakdown of element system and product and there may be alignment between these two and that's what we seek for to to ensure that. We, not the classification system, not only benefits construction but also asset maintenance.

Bryan

But business rules are established for these references, right? Let me think of a good example here. It could be that the location of a particular Rd. they may have Rd. numbers, and then they also may have a linear reference whereby the road starts from zero and goes to so so many kilometres down Rd.

Bryan

And where does the 0 start? Is it away from the city to the city and those little intricacies before we can get value information within the models needs to be fleshed out. And simply call asset references. They may call it krb or curb within their system.

Bryan

Know what is the equivalent in our classification space as well? So all this understanding of you know the minimum maintainable item which will then reflect as an asset label or asset. D locations references asset references needs to be fleshed out together, and the asset owners like to encourage them to come to the party.

Bryan

And actually, you know, share share that knowledge in terms of their business rules to help alleviate some of these challenges.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah. No, thank you, Brian. Is great.

Bryan

I kind of. You really? Yeah. I actually jumped ahead and really looked at, you know, how it. Could it could be solving? I just jump into the problem solving mode, apologies.

Andrea Ciaffi

No, that's. Yeah, that's OK. You're really bringing light to all of the challenges that some of the key challenges that Assad managers can have. And that's why sometimes set an application of beam in this space, cool, feel overwhelming for certain people because. If you've never done this before, now you're confronted with this like items, and you're like, where should I start?

Andrea Ciaffi

A very good point and think about where should I. Do you have any suggestions of how these challenges could be addressed? To at least mitigate.

Bryan

Yeah, as I kind of looted already, I guess it's open and increased the transparency of how acid owners need their information. We we we from from a design consultants base we will always get full view of what construction companies need from the information we have in the BIM space, we would like to encourage the transparency with the acid owners.

Bryan

Know how do they maintain their assets? Is their their MMI? What is their asset location? References or the location reference and asset referencing methodology. And the other thing would be a progressive and peaceful implementation. It will. It is a lot to take in, I guess, from a practitioner's point of view, to apply the right properties and know how to validate it.

Bryan

That knowledge needs to be, I guess. Ingrained within the business so that we are getting reliable information for those intended users, so. Progressive implementation will help with the change piece wise change management process and appropriate guide documents, training and sharing. That knowledge would be would go a long way.

Bryan

Hmm. And then feedback in data validation that that is I guess a pivotal point in this space is that we have that consistent way of verifying this data aligned with those business practices or the asset owners business practices. So giving us that feedback will also then help us improve the validation processes and the way these the practitioners are implementing that information.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah. Yeah, I can see. I can see how you really you really need a team to support the asset management team to to implement all these solutions. I I I am conscious that certain projects may be confidential's and and and you can't really.

Andrea Ciaffi

Share probably the most exciting things you've been working about. Is there any? Example projects that you can share with us, where beam has improved asset maintenance.

Bryan

I think without without saying any project I guess. Where has been significantly improved asset maintenance. I think as I said before, it's actually the standardized data that really enables because a lot of the asset maintenance systems are database driven. You know, some of them are quite old in terms of like ACSV database.

Bryan

What really benefited some of them is the asset handover process. Where that classification was mapped out right at the beginning, those conversations were happened at an earlier stage so that we were then able to identify quickly and apply the right asset labels and IDs onto the.

Bryan

BIM models during design to then correctly identify what assets were going to be constructed and eventually handed over to the asset owner. So the standardization of data and the completeness of it allowed acid owners have a better view of their asset. Along with other considerations where.

Bryan

Where those assets are GPS information and then plug it into their system for them to then start doing their business processes. So. Where is it improved? At the moment I've seen it been more beneficial for the handover process. There has been inklings where they're looking at trying to do forecasting as well.

Bryan

Those are still like, as I said earlier, a progressive thing that they're looking. To explore.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, very good. Thanks. Now it will. Hard to have an episode about the massive management and don't mention digital twin. Over the last few years I've had many definitions. People have different opinions and if it feels like it keeps on evolving and everybody.

Andrea Ciaffi

Has a definition and a very strong opinion about what the definition should look like. So I want to take this opportunity to ask to ask you, from your point of view, what is a digital twin and? Sorry, what's the difference between beam models and digital twin in asset management?

Bryan

Right, a little. I'd I haven't really per SE use that term myself, but my interpretation it is a represent a virtual representation of the physical asset. Keeping it simple as. Some of you might. Might connect. I like to, I guess, give an analogy where the beam is a appliance or a product and.

Bryan

Digital twin is that product being plugged into the mains. Darren. And that product then becomes an ecosystem of. That is your home, and I guess that's more analogy for what digital twin is and the electricity that's going into your products appliances. That's essentially the information, the data that is going flowing from one appliance to another.

Andrea Ciaffi

Very. Like in you know in in the industry there are people that are very excited about digital tween. Are. There are people who are very skeptical about digital twins, but there are people skeptical about any technologies like there are people are excited over excited about any technologies.

Andrea Ciaffi

From your point of view. Do you think that digital twins could be the future of a beam driven asset management?

Bryan

Well, I think the skeptics and the what was the term you used skeptics and the Super excited people?

Andrea Ciaffi

So what I'm gonna be?

Bryan

Both. Right. Because it's a case by case scenario. And the asset owner or asset organization needs to be able to work with that end appliance. If let's say we created a full BIM model with all the valuable information, can the asset organization utilize?

Bryan

It's that product. Does the digital representation have significant benefits? So for example, if I am a resource client and I have offshore assets in major structures. That replica of that digital representation may be very, very beneficial when it comes to maintenance practices and activities before they go down from a safety perspective, visualize what it is.

Bryan

And and and having that replica can be very. But keeping in mind they still have to maintain that that entire digital representation. Because I mean, strictly strictly speaking is a visual representation of that physical asset, and over time, if that. Deteriorates and it's not kept up to date.

Bryan

Then it loses its. So how does that organization adopt that digital twin slash BIM model? Into their business workflows now now. The other question is does the tools currently support what it takes to maintain that entire? Digital replica a virtual replica of that model.

Bryan

Now I give you an example. With regards to, let's say in an infrastructure space, the assets are the main biggest assets would be in the roads, the payment. Now with regards to that digital representation of the pavement, you have multiple layers.

Bryan

And the tricky thing with regards to if the acid owner is to maintain that entire digital representation, what happens if you've got milled and resheats on certain lanes? You take out multiple pavement layers on others, and then you're extending the payment. Another to include another lane.

Bryan

You didn't start to see the complexity of trying to. Maintain that virtual. Are you going to hand the existing model to the designers to then chop and change so that they then have that full maintainable virtual representation? It gets really tricky. The software's actually support that and is it worth the investment?

Bryan

A lot of the linear asset management organizations utilizing just a single line as their linear reference. You know that single line can easily be chopped and said this part was redone. Multiple lanes and then along that reference line you have all the various asset.

Bryan

And you're not actually having a virtual representation per SE in a 3D object space, but you do have a thread of where that road is from a location perspective and along the road you can identify what assets they are, and if the pavement chops in changes you.

Bryan

Changing data. You're not actually changing and having to maintain that exact virtual replica. Skeptics are right to say that yes, technology at the moment probably still has advancement in that space, and whether we can do it efficiently such that is a cost effective.

Bryan

To maintain assets and I. I like to be. I like to see new technologies showcase how they actually are going to maintain that digital replica, but also. What is that cost involved actually maintain? And is it really beneficial for that particular asset owner?

Bryan

So case by case scenario is my summary from all that.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, the answer is always it depends. Yeah. So we know it's sure it's about. Sure, it's about beam and all of the great things that we can do. Twins by the end of the day, it's all about people. So. How do we bring people along the journey and how do we train and upskill the people?

Andrea Ciaffi

It's probably like crucial. So how do we, from your point of view, how do we train beam teams? So on one side, how do we train the beam teams to deliver and manage models that can be then? Used by asset managers and then on the other side, how do we help the asset manager?

Andrea Ciaffi

To then receive and take the most out of these models that have been produced with a goal in mind, and also do see any difference between these models that are built. For asset management versus model builds for just construction, for the construction phase.

Bryan

All right, well answer the first question first. It's a loaded question there so. How do we train BIM teams to deliver and manage models that can be used by asset managers? Firstly, I guess it's about understanding information appreciation, how the asset owner need their information, how they use it.

Bryan

Considerations of the asset and operation activities. So as I spoke about before, is you know how how they classify the minimum in tenable item and how they actually doing their work order activity sending out for maintenance team to go down and collect or do the repairs or collect information and put it back in their.

Bryan

So understanding that we then have a way to to to translate that information into activities that these BIM teams will then have to apply. As in most easy way possible. So what I see and I from those from that explanation is starting with the people.

Bryan

Understanding what people need within, you know the various asset organizations and owners and then looking at the current business processes that are currently out there that they're actually doing. Then we reflect on, OK, if we are going to implement. A new workflow and use technology such as and methodology such as BIM.

Bryan

What are the? To that current processes that is required. Once we go through that process is who that updated process is going to impact people? We then train and and and work together with those stakeholders to make sure that process is understood and and can be applied efficiently, effective.

Bryan

And then we start picking the technology to say, right, these are the technologies that can deliver our process. So that's, I guess in a nutshell how our approach where we are looking at a new acid owner. We are looking at considerations around what they do think about the people first, then work out what the process need to be updated and then?

Bryan

Let's then pick the technologies to make this work. I guess we in some sense we have been a victim of. Software marketing teams, and they're always pushing software onto us. Let's. Back and work out K How is this going to benefit the people that we are utilizing and implementing a new process for?

Bryan

Is there any difference between traditional project delivery? Or construction. Definitely there will. There will be updates to the processes. There will be updates. To those workflows with the asset owners. But for construction, I would say. Hopefully not.

Andrea Ciaffi

They should have paraded like the same the same asset. Awfully. If you could.

Bryan

Well, that, that we we can we can assume that everyone has their own ways of working. Needs to be a common ground struct between them. But depending. Like what construction would? Maybe you know procurement, they might not have a procurement ID or a reference to work out their cost to quantity take off etcetera.

Bryan

While that is a lot more granular that may be compared to an acid owner. SN OD may only need to. The entire life. But a construction. They need to know how much concrete is in the foundation, the pole, the steel that they're going to purchase.

Bryan

So the granularity shifts and changes and and I guess is there any difference to traditional project delivery is taking on additional considerations and this is where design. Is getting a little bit more complex. Is understanding these various parties and and what information how they actually want it.

Bryan

Implemented so I say there is a slight difference. But where we can find common ground use the same information if there is a classification system tying. What construction companies require to those classification system? It's granular enough. Potentially could serve a common. You apply classification, construction, and asset owners may be able to then achieve what they need from mapping.

Bryan

So.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, the video's probably. 10 Now I know it's very hard to predict the. Probably nobody really can predict the future, but if you think if you focus on the roles and the and the people that work in this space, where do you see the beam beams rolls in?

Andrea Ciaffi

Management can evolve over the next, let's say, 5 to 10 years. What's your best guess?

Bryan

Umm.

Andrea Ciaffi

We are going to reply this in 10.

Bryan

Let me take. Let me let me let me, let me let me have that podcast. In 10 years I'll tell.

Andrea Ciaffi

Or not.

Bryan

Let me look at my crystal ball here. I think as we get more mature with being and more importantly the digital engineering component where you have a lot more information being produced, the assurance of the information that's being captured. Umm. About how asset owners interact with engineering information to manage their assets.

Bryan

Then I think then industry will be able to flex the application beam in a scalable way sustainable way which makes sure that right amount of information gets the right people. And in the right way at the right time. So I'd hope that in the next 5 to 10 years we are able to utilize the concept and have been a little bit more.

Bryan

Scalable to the needs of the people rather than a copy and paste, this is what we're gonna do for everything. Every project moving forward because that's the bee's knees, I think. I really hope that at 5 to 10 years we are able to flex depending on who we are delivering projects to.

Bryan

And so forth.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, I'll be with you. It's.

Bryan

So yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, you go, Andrew.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah. No, I was just.

Bryan

Going to sum it up is five to 10 years is a long time and technology may may have improved at that at that point as well. Hopefully we as an industry will be able to adapt the newer technology. But as as it develops as well, but always considering how we actually implement it in a practical manner.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, it'll be interesting because at the moment we're we're dealing with data and large data sets and that lives in, in being modelled and at the moment we have AI that is also managing and probably. He. Recent introduction into our workflows so. Probably in the future, in the next 5 to 10 years, we'll probably be able to see.

Andrea Ciaffi

In a little bit more in a clear way, the direction that this is. Taking in and how that can support us, but from this point of view, like expanding on this, what are the technologies, technology advancements that are most exciting in this space from your point of view?

Bryan

From my point of view. On the topic of of AII guess, it really depends on what kind of data, like AI model that is at the back of it I think. Us as engineers want to have assurance that what we are putting out there, what we are designing, is assured reliable.

Bryan

And no matter what, it still will need to be fact checked. And reviewed. So if there is technical advancements that are gonna be embedded within atypical design process or even the BIM modeling process. We need to do it in an assured manner and a short way because there is inherent risks with the data that we are delivering.

Bryan

If let's say we say that there is a gas main well, there isn't a gas main in this location and we dig it and. Does happen. There is a significant risk in the information, so the insurance will never be. The assurance will always be there and and in one way or another.

Bryan

So it's not about it taking over, but how do we then update our business processes to align? What we currently do, or the people that we that'll work on the project with with those tools. But what are some of the technological advancement that I see predictive analysis through dial analytics?

Bryan

So that comes through the utilization of structured and assured and validated data. If we have you know. A database associated with the asset types. The condition of it. You know whether it be temperature. Of the that location over the years. All that sort of information or typical amount of investment, all that data can then be input into your predictive analysis to work out.

Bryan

You know what's the best course of action for a maintainer to to invest in, whether they should maintain this set of items before another. I think once we get start to get a more structured set of data that even in terms of AI, the data model will be.

Bryan

A lot more. And it would be probably easier for an engineer to go handle that and like I will trust what that does come out of there. There is a bit of. I guess progress in that space to really open the doors to what could be compared to the AI models with regards to chattv T and language.

Bryan

You know, you know, they we know that makes mistakes. We kind of mistakes in the engineering space. In the engineering information. Being used for construction being used to maintain assets, etc. So that's that's one item, but but as as industry progresses with new technologies, I think we need the right kind of people who can make sure we reflect on the impact of these new technologies.

Bryan

We need the right people to work together with, you know, the Q s s, the designers, the assets. The owners? And understand what they need and how existing business processes can then be updated and evolved so that we can then implement the technology in a more effective manner.

Bryan

So. A great idea in this in this space is only as good as this execution so.

Andrea Ciaffi

Very good. This is very very wise statement. You for the.

Bryan

You flatter me.

Andrea Ciaffi

And with that, we are at the end of our episode. Thank you, Brian, for taking the time to speak to with me today and sharing your knowledge with the listener and just if people want to reach out to you where they can find you.

Bryan

Oh, sure. Can find me on LinkedIn and and you can reach out to me there. I'm I'm it's it's on my. I will respond as soon as I get to. Beautiful.

Andrea Ciaffi

Thank you, Brian. Have a great day. Thank you.

Bryan

Thank. Thank you, Andrea. Was great. Thank you. Bye. See you.