Construction Tech Sales Explained with Gustavo de Bardeci

Andrea Ciaffi

Hi guys, welcome to the Digital Construction Podcast.

Gus de Bardeci

Hey, Andrea, how are you?

Andrea Ciaffi

So very good, very good. So today I am excited to speak with Gustavo de Bardesi. So we'll call him Gus for a friend.

Gus de Bardeci

Perfect.

Andrea Ciaffi

So he is originally from Argentina, but he spent 11 years in Australia.

Andrea Ciaffi

And the reason why I'm excited about this conversation is one is because he's a great guy and also because he has been He spent his career in the on the sales side of construction and software, which is one of these aspects that we don't cover much, which is very exciting now to be able to learn more from from Gus.

Andrea Ciaffi

So, at the moment, he works at Revisto, and but previously he worked at Agonex, so software and platform we're all familiar with. He has also worked at NBS, National Bidding Specification. It's a company in the UK. It's very exciting to speak to you guys.

Andrea Ciaffi

But before we start, there is a question I ask everyone because I think it's a good opportunity to learn a lot from other people, like people like you and What is the best piece of advice you've ever received in your career?

Gus de Bardeci

Call. There's so many. So there are a lot of different phrases that are very common within sales environment. I'm pretty sure that you're familiar with most of them. You know, you have two ears and one mouth for a reason, or you are only as good as your last quarter.

Gus de Bardeci

That was so true. But there was one that actually stood with me over the years, and it was around and the right to speak. So before you can sell anything, you have to understand your customer. And when you further develop your career, you understand that in sales, Credibility is the only sustainable advantage that you're ever going to have.

Gus de Bardeci

So from a customer perspective is prove to me that you're worth my time. So that one, that one was very important for me.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, that's very valid, and I think it can be used by other participants as well, not just sales.

Gus de Bardeci

Hundred percent, 100%.

Andrea Ciaffi

And I would like to focus on your career and how you ended up doing what you're doing to now. Can you please walk us through the path that you took from your first professional roles to where you are to the El Visto? We already mentioned you are from Argentina.

Andrea Ciaffi

But yeah, let us know. How did you get that?

Gus de Bardeci

That's a long journey. As you said, yeah, I started my career has been in Argentina, primarily Latin American. And speaking about my first professional role, I would say Oracle was there was an inflection point in my life. And the first a software company that I work for.

Gus de Bardeci

That was where everything started, really. I sold hardware and services afterwards as well, but the software's always been my cup of tea. And I was involved more into enterprise software, Oracle and IBM primarily.

Gus de Bardeci

serving very different verticals, MCG, financial services, utilities, telecommunications, etc. But it wasn't until I landed here in Australia, about, yeah, as you said, 11 years ago, that I got the exposure to the construction industry. To be honest, I didn't plan to end up in construction tech.

Gus de Bardeci

We applied for my PR. The visa was granted a year later, and we just moved to Australia. The funny part is that we'd never been to Australia before moving to Australia, so I didn't know what to expect. But that was it. We had no family here.

Gus de Bardeci

I didn't have a job and not matching my bank account either. But I was very lucky, lucky enough to be recruited by a company called Aconix. There wasn't, obviously I wasn't familiar with them at all at the time. And my manager, Margaret, not only took a a leap of faith with me, but she taught me a lot.

Gus de Bardeci

Aconex was a fantastic school for me. And then it just, you know, I fell in love with the industry. And I've been very lucky because I obviously was construction at the very beginning, then I moved to operations. And then I moved to design.

Gus de Bardeci

So I kind of, you can say that I have a holistic

Andrea Ciaffi

Mm.

Gus de Bardeci

approach to the whole life cycle of a project.

Andrea Ciaffi

Nice. And when you look back, when you look back at the skills that brought you into your first sales rod, which one turned out to be useful?

Gus de Bardeci

Oh. Curiosity for sure. Definitely resilience, especially at the very beginning.

Andrea Ciaffi

Mhm.

Gus de Bardeci

Relationship building is a big one for me. And I guess that the ability to work with different levels of stakeholders, those are, I would say, those are the ones that are that are more important for me. Sorry, then did you say unlearn?

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, possibly even learn, yeah.

Gus de Bardeci

Yeah, yeah. I would be more inclined to say that I kind of, you know, put them aside. There were a lot of different skills that you learn in certain markets or in certain industries that are not applicable to others.

Gus de Bardeci

So I had to To essentially unlearn the idea that knowing the product well is enough in construction, you need to understand the customer's processes, the project context, the politics, and sometimes the history of fail implementations before you can. Be really useful to them.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, that's great. And a while ago, when we had the first conversation, talking like planning for this podcast, you have been very candid saying that starting in a role like sales role with coming from Argentina, so you have to deal with the language barrier and that was hard.

Andrea Ciaffi

Can you share with us what that experience actually feels like and what kept you going? Because other people may have decided to just give up, but you continue there and you've been successful. So how was that part of your story?

Gus de Bardeci

Yeah. We can have a whole episode just about this part. But I'll try to summarize. And yeah, it was it was very hard at the very beginning. I won't lie. I won't shortcoat it. And it wasn't only about the language, honestly. Australia is a multicultural country.

Gus de Bardeci

So, you know, your years need to adjust to accents as well. And, or I don't know, I remember, you know, having conversations over the phone with people that were, you know, regional Victoria and the middle of nowhere on a mobile. and they had thick accents and I wasn't able to understand a word they were saying.

Gus de Bardeci

So that kind of thing. So they were very, very rough at the very beginning, honestly. It was frustrating, especially in sales where communication is is the tool that you use. And that can really affect your confidence, honestly. I needed to provide for my family, so I needed to sell, but I cannot sell if I don't express myself correctly.

Gus de Bardeci

That puts a lot of pressure on your shoulders. So When you can't rely on charm or fluency, you fall back on preparation and listening. So it really forced me to become a better listener and intentional above all. I had to prepare better, ask clearer questions, and make sure I understood the customer properly.

Gus de Bardeci

Yeah, once you kind of sort out those bumps, it gets way easier for sure.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, and if you think about somebody like,

Gus de Bardeci

Ohh.

Andrea Ciaffi

or maybe the gas from many years ago, or somebody in that position today, right? So somebody that is trying to start a customer-facing role or career today that is working in a language that is not their first language,

Gus de Bardeci

Yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

what would you tell them?

Gus de Bardeci

Not to confuse accent with ability and do not wait until you know your English or any second language for that matter is perfect before you put yourself forward. People respect someone who shows up repair and genuine above all over someone that, you know, is sounds confident but says nothing.

Gus de Bardeci

Your accent is not your weakness. The effort that you're putting in, that is your strength.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, this is great, and I'm sure I'm sure people can resonate with that, even like myself coming from Italy. I I face similar challenges and I ended up improving my technical skills to balance that. So, it's similar, similar, similar story when... The language is not your strength, you focus on preparation or technical

Gus de Bardeci

Absolutely. Absolutely. Obviously, you prepare in a totally different way.

Andrea Ciaffi

ability. Sense.

Gus de Bardeci

And even you anticipate the questions that they may ask you and that sort of things. So obviously, you're more prepared.

Andrea Ciaffi

Definitely.

Gus de Bardeci

That's what I was saying. You are more intentional on how you do it as a consequence. But I guess it's great in the end. because you need the discipline in order to achieve what you need.

Andrea Ciaffi

Definitely. And at the moment, you work at Revisto. So many listeners will be familiar with Revisto. We probably all know what it is.

Gus de Bardeci

Yeah. Mhm.

Andrea Ciaffi

And I think what people probably don't know is what a week in your role looks like. Can you share with us what a typical week at Revisto in your role actually looks like? And And how does that compare with what people imagine sales professionals spend

Gus de Bardeci

The.

Andrea Ciaffi

their day doing?

Gus de Bardeci

Okay. I guess in a way, it's not very different from any other sales role in the market. A real week is a mix of prospecting, inbound, outbound calls, customer meetings, broad conversations, follow-ups, partner discussions if you are working with indirect channels, and a lot of prioritization.

Gus de Bardeci

People often see the meeting or the demo, but they do not get to see what happens before and after that demo. And then all the preparation. or before it, or the internal coordination after it. A lot of the work is connecting the dots, and there's a lot, you know, to be done on the research side of things.

Gus de Bardeci

I guess that's kind of the bigger picture.

Andrea Ciaffi

And sometimes, like I understand that if it's to have customers all around the world, it's a global platform, sometimes it may feel challenging to decide where do you spend your energy because you're working across multiple regions, multiple customer types.

Gus de Bardeci

Okay.

Andrea Ciaffi

So, how do you how do you decide where to channel your energy when everything potentially looks important?

Gus de Bardeci

I learned early that energy is spent on the wrong opportunities is worse than not having an opportunity at all. Qualification is not a, you know, a gatekeeping exercise. It's but respect for everyone's time, including yours. obviously. So not every single opportunity deserves the same energy and even if it's, you know, every opportunity looks urgent.

Gus de Bardeci

So that, yeah, prioritization, I guess it's massive. And I guess you equalize that, you know, as you. as you develop your career and understand the market that you're serving and the people that you're interacting with.

Andrea Ciaffi

Is there a specific part of your job that you find most rewarding? In your job in sales or in general, Revisto? And are there any parts that you think people that don't work in sales completely miss about that?

Gus de Bardeci

Yeah, I guess from from our standpoint, and I guess it's applicable to most products in the market, I guess that the most rewarding part is whenever I get, you know, positive feedback from customers using the platform. I personally really believe in the product itself.

Gus de Bardeci

So whenever I hear good things coming from them, it is kind of a reassurance that, you know, that you believe are the right ones. So yeah, I would say that's a big one.

Andrea Ciaffi

And I would like to talk about the reality versus the perception of what sales does in construction tech. And sometimes it's a very interesting

Gus de Bardeci

Mhm.

Andrea Ciaffi

industry that has a very complicated relationship with the word sales

Gus de Bardeci

Yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

sometimes, especially in more technical roles. And From your point of view, what do you think that perception gets wrong about the role you actually play?

Gus de Bardeci

The. Ah, good question. I think every industry has... actually a complicated understanding of sales, and rightfully so. Sales is often being seen as the people who promise things that the product can deliver. And that is a massive, massive one in the market. Realistically, you have to earn trust in an industry that might be slightly suspicious of you.

Gus de Bardeci

And I guess in the digital space where we operate, this industry in particular has a bias toward technical goals. you know, engineers, architects, et cetera. So, so yeah, I guess that's where it gravitates around that.

Andrea Ciaffi

And how much of what you do day to day looks more like consulting or problem framing or simple technical advisory than what people will call traditional selling?

Gus de Bardeci

So let me put it simple. So you can close a deal with a BIM manager or a digital leader without understanding the workflow. Goat sales and construction tech is much closer to consulting for sure. And you need to understand project delivery, coordination issues, stakeholder behaviors, risk.

Gus de Bardeci

information flow, adoption, that kind of stuff. If you don't know, if you do not understand the customer reality, yeah, you cannot credibly recommend anything. So yeah, that's important.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, so. So you think, I just wonder like sometimes you are interacting with probably with BIM manager or project director or maybe digital leaders and I just wonder how deep that technical fluency generally needs to go because you just mentioned like you can probably close a deal regardless like even if you don't know.

Andrea Ciaffi

How much can they help you if you understand the problem technically and how deep do you need to go to be effective in that role?

Gus de Bardeci

Absolutely. Yeah, that's a good one, especially because the kind of customers that we're touching, you know, it's a niche market, I would say, the digital space. So everyone knows each other and we have really knowledgeable people. really knowledgeable professionals in this space.

Gus de Bardeci

But back to your point, you don't need to be, you know, a BIM manager, but you need to understand enough to ask intelligent questions and not waste their time. As I said at the very beginning, you know, and the right to speak. So you need to know the language models, drawings, issues, coordination, RFIs, LODs, the terminology around it.

Gus de Bardeci

And technical fluency gives you permission to have a strategic conversation. You need you need just to be credible enough, but you need to know when to involve someone who can talk exactly the same language. I'm very lucky in that in that in that aspect.

Gus de Bardeci

Obviously, I've been. having pre-sales or customer success teams, they provide that kind of that kind of support, and they are more suitable, you know, in order to potentially discuss technical the technical stuff with your customers. But yeah, you need to, you need to be able to orchestrate on that.

Andrea Ciaffi

And I think one way to understand what people in your role actually do is try to understand the career progression and how do you progress in a sales role. And from somebody for somebody that is outside of sales,

Gus de Bardeci

Mm.

Andrea Ciaffi

The path forward in this career is largely invisible. Like they don't know exactly what this career path look like. But can you share with us what the progression actually,

Gus de Bardeci

Mm.

Andrea Ciaffi

how the progression actually works in construction tech sales from potentially just being an individual contributor through To a leadership role.

Gus de Bardeci

For sales in general, at the beginning, I guess progression is software is often measured by activity, right? And what I mean is a pipeline and closed deals. But over time, the bar changes. You are expecting. to understand the market, build trusted relationships, influence internal teams, you know, help shape plans potentially, and create opportunities that maybe they are not obvious.

Gus de Bardeci

The best people still hit their numbers, but they also... build a reputation and I guess that's the point. However, for what I have seen in this particular industry, the best progression is not just a title, but networking and relationships for sure.

Andrea Ciaffi

And I think an important part of this role is incentives, right? So can you share with us what incentives the industry in sales actually rewards and where do they sometimes pull people in the wrong direction? Because companies are trying probably to progress,

Gus de Bardeci

Mmh.

Andrea Ciaffi

but sometimes certain incentives could Potentially, it will prove in the wrong direction, but can you explain to us the incentive system in your in your?

Gus de Bardeci

Yeah, that's a really big point. I guess that short-term incentive structures can push reps to oversell, over-promise, or this counterclause. That kills retention and poisons the customer relationship in the end. Construction is a long-term industry. You know, if you push something that is not right for your customer, you're shooting your own food.

Gus de Bardeci

You might weigh a deal, but you know you're going to you're going to lose your reputation. And And that's your commercial asset in the end, so it's very important to to keep to keep to keep an angle on that.

Andrea Ciaffi

And I think you touched on this before when you said that the reputation is very important, but at the same time, you need to hit your numbers as well, because of course, that's how you progress and how the

Gus de Bardeci

Mmh.

Andrea Ciaffi

business progresses. But when you look across the people you've worked with, How can you tell the difference between somebody who is just simply hitting their numbers versus somebody who is trying to build their reputation in the industry over time? How can you tell the difference between these two people?

Gus de Bardeci

Mhm. I guess that anyone can hit quota once, but the ones who build reputations are the ones who are being called when they change companies. You know what I mean? And that's the real measure in the end, that kind of trust. Quota, you know, gets measured every year.

Gus de Bardeci

and the reputation compounds over your career. So, that is that is the ultimately the most important part, how how you measure how you measure that.

Andrea Ciaffi

And it. Yeah, that's a great way to frame it. And we spoken before about misconception, but if you could pick one that's the main misconception in the industry about salespeople and sales team that is probably persistent in this industry,

Gus de Bardeci

Mm.

Andrea Ciaffi

and you Like, is there anything that you wish the industry will finally let go and that you think is not real?

Gus de Bardeci

I guess the biggest misconception is that salespeople, they are just to negotiate price or push a contract. In reality, a good salesperson will help the customer frame the problem, understand the options, and avoid the, you know, the fat. the bad fit solutions. And obviously, as I said before, you have to be able to connect with the right people.

Gus de Bardeci

You know, if I know that, you know, my industry consultant knows really a lot about, I don't know, structural. Well, I'm going to bring him to the conversation so that they can talk in the same language and they're going to feel more comfortable in that way.

Gus de Bardeci

In construction technology, a good vendor relationship would challenge you a little as well. You know, It should not just be someone just saying yes to everything that you ask for. So that is kind of the healthy relationship that you need to have.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah. And I think an interesting aspect here is about the products you sell. So we have people building products all

Gus de Bardeci

Yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

the time. And it's very hard to reach product market fit. Like you build something, you think that people will use it. And I'm very keen to understand your point of view,

Gus de Bardeci

Mm.

Andrea Ciaffi

because you are on the other side, right? You are the ultimate evidence that that product is actually a good product because you can actually

Gus de Bardeci

Mmh.

Andrea Ciaffi

sell it to somebody who is willing to pay. So you've been sitting with hundreds of customers. From your point of view, what generally separated great construction products from products that are just simply Noise.

Gus de Bardeci

Oh. Good question. I would say I'm... Adoption for sure. Okay, adoption is the ultimate measure there. But you know, how fast can you, how can you support them in change management is another part of the product. And what I mean is, it has to fit into the way people actually work.

Gus de Bardeci

not the way software companies imagine they work. But you're not there to impose anything. The best products reduce friction across roles, be managers, project managers, site teams, consultants, owners, etc. If only the technical champion loves it,

Andrea Ciaffi

But.

Gus de Bardeci

Sorry, especially coming from software. I've been the software my whole life. It's always been adoption. That's the ultimate KPI.

Andrea Ciaffi

Definitely, totally agree. And where do you see most construction software companies still getting something wrong, especially when it comes to other product fields on the daily basis?

Gus de Bardeci

I would say ease of use. By far, a lot of construction and software still feels like it was designed just for the technical role in mind and not for the regular, you know, less savvy user. That is where adoption breaks.

Gus de Bardeci

The daily user experience matters because construction teams are you know, are busy, under pressure, you know, under the pump every single day, and often dealing with too many systems already. So you need to simplify that. You need to be able to, with what you have, support that and make their lives easier.

Andrea Ciaffi

And you probably interact a lot with the product team and I imagine there will be a feedback loop between your team, the sales team and the product team. How important is this feedback loop and do you think can just can actually change the direction of a product?

Andrea Ciaffi

And

Gus de Bardeci

Mm.

Andrea Ciaffi

Well, it just began a complaint channel.

Gus de Bardeci

It is, it is, it is very important. I guess, ultimately, if you want to change something, you want to develop something, you need, you know, their feedback. As I say all the time, it's great to have, you know, the gardeners, Then, the the the those companies, you know, telling where the the industry is going, but the important is what the customer ultimately say.

Gus de Bardeci

You know, they need you need to hear them. Sales teams hear the market every day, but but feedback only only become useful when When it is a structure, what he was saying, otherwise it becomes noise. The best feedback loop separates one-off company complaints, sorry, from repeated patterns, and then the product team.

Gus de Bardeci

can act on what really matters in that way. I guess this is why it's a best practice to involve your customer success team or industry consultants in order to collect these feedbacks. They are constantly talking to customers and better suited to translate afterwards to the development teams.

Andrea Ciaffi

And if we change gear and shift and think about AI, because it's a big,

Gus de Bardeci

True.

Andrea Ciaffi

we've all been hit by, yeah, we've all been hit by AI and I think it's

Gus de Bardeci

Big boss of work, yeah, yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

an opportunity for us to discuss if this is a genuine shift in the industry or if we are still like business as usual. I just wanted to ask you,

Gus de Bardeci

Mm.

Andrea Ciaffi

like if you see AI generally changing how your team sells or still just mostly happening in PowerPoint slides rather than actual workflows?

Gus de Bardeci

Ahh. So this is a tricky question because it has so many things coming every single day. AI is definitely changing parts of the sales workflow, especially, you know, the research component, account planning, summarizing information, writing drafts, then, you know, preparing your conversations. that sort of things.

Gus de Bardeci

But I don't think it replaces the human part of the construction sales, if that makes sense. If anything, it makes the human part more important as a consequence, because everyone will have access to similar information. The difference will be who can build trust, ask better questioners, and understand the customer context in the end.

Gus de Bardeci

I guess that is that is that is the gap that I see, but but but it's getting better.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah.

Gus de Bardeci

Perfect.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, I think, I think a way, yeah, I think a way to measure this is maybe

Gus de Bardeci

It's getting better.

Andrea Ciaffi

trying to focus on what the customers are asking you about AI today, that they weren't asking you maybe one year ago or two years ago.

Gus de Bardeci

Yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

Have you noted any shifts in the conversation from what you were talking

Gus de Bardeci

Yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

about with customer one year ago, two years ago versus today, or is it still the same?

Gus de Bardeci

Yeah. Let's say a year ago, many AI conversations were broad and theoretical, right? Now customers are asking more practical questions. You know, how will this improve my workflows or reduce admin or support my decisions? or help teams manage project information. They are less, I would say, impressed by the word they are and more interested in whether it...

Gus de Bardeci

it solves something real. Again, as AI evolves, also our customers are evolving. So yeah, but it's great. I think it's a great push for the industry.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, and just one more question. Like you mentioned before that the human touch, the human skills are still very relevant. And AI is probably becoming like embedded in certain workflows, probably in sales team and how the team operates in general. If you think about the skills that are becoming even more important and the skills that are probably like commoditized at the moment because of AI,

Gus de Bardeci

Mm.

Andrea Ciaffi

is there anything you can think of which one are becoming more important?

Gus de Bardeci

Um... I would say judgment. The trust, still curiosity. Commercial empathy. and the ability to simplify complexity. That's, yeah, those are the ones for me. And commoditized, I would say anything that you could potentially structure or put it in A-frame, as in you know, outreach, research, follow-ups and surface level product information.

Gus de Bardeci

Yeah, that's done. That's already there. So yeah, yeah, it's, yeah, it's still, there is a gap, so hopefully we'll still be around for one.

Andrea Ciaffi

Definitely. So Gus, we are at the end of the episode and I think this has been a great episode because you've been able to share with us that sales in construction tech is not just about pitching about it. So it's mostly about earning their trust and building relationship with the customers and supporting them.

Andrea Ciaffi

to then provide better solutions. If people want to reach out to you, where can they find you?

Gus de Bardeci

I would say LinkedIn is the best the best way. Yeah, happy to happy to share my profile there, but if you look for gas or yeah, it's going to be there for sure.

Andrea Ciaffi

Perfect. Thank you very much. Thank you for joining us on the DGL Construction Podcast.

Gus de Bardeci

Thank you. Thanks for having me. It's been a pleasure.