From BIM Technician to Technical Sales Consultant with Ben Byrnes

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, I can't. OK. OK, so it's all good for me. Are you ready to start? There you go. OK. Hi Ben. Welcome to the Digital Construction podcast. How are you today?

Ben Byrnes

Yeah, very good. Thank you.

Andrea Ciaffi

I'm very excited to have you here and in this episode we sit down with Ben Berns to discuss his career transition from a BIM technician to technical sales consultant, consultant at the moment he was he works for Arcans. We will help. We'll explore.

Andrea Ciaffi

Sorry, I made a mistake.

Ben Byrnes

What you doing?

Andrea Ciaffi

It doesn't happen often. OK, let's start again. Hi Ben, how are you today?

Ben Byrnes

Very good. How are you?

Andrea Ciaffi

Very good. Thank you. Welcome to the Digital Construction podcast. So today in this episode, we sit down with Ben Berns to discuss his career transition from a bin technician to a technical sales consultant. We will explore how his BIM expertise helps engineering and construction companies adopt the right software, our retailer solution for clients, deliver technical demonstration and provide consulting across.

Andrea Ciaffi

The AEC industry at the moment he works for Archons. But previously. Ben worked for Arab Northrop smack, so today I'm very excited to speak with Ben because. In this episode, we'll explore how can somebody transition from a role in beam beam technician? To the sales, a technical sales support which is which is one of the things that not been explored a lot.

Andrea Ciaffi

So welcome Ben. So just to start, I would like to. I would like you to give us a quick introduction about your career and the project you worked on. Can you share this with us please?

Ben Byrnes

Typically straight out of school, I went into a structural drafting apprenticeship that was actually with Sinclair and I admerts, who are part of the now. They're part of the Jacobs group. A lot of companies have joined together. So I sort of did my apprenticeship there from there.

Ben Byrnes

I went contracting. So I worked on a lot of different projects across a range of companies, generally spending probably about two, 2 1/2, three years at each company. Working generally on projects did a fair bit on the Olympic Stadium, so that was in the early two, well late 90s.

Ben Byrnes

And then also I went on at our up, I did worked on some big projects there. So Metro, Martin place all sort of Sydney based sort of projects. So I've generally been in the sort of NSW area. So yeah, a lot of the big projects around there.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, classic. I want to say like classic carrier of Beam Technician working on so many different projects. But what made you transition from being technician to technical sales support?

Ben Byrnes

And so I love drafting, and it was probably my first true love, like drafting and modelling, things like that. But it probably, you know, you've reached a certain age and it's just like I can't keep doing this like the the tight deadlines unpaid over time and working a lot of extra time.

Ben Byrnes

And it's just like, yeah, it became a bit gruelling. That's why I sort of started to just open my eyes up and and have a look at what else was out there. And the opportunity came up. For for this one and I thought with a fair bit of nerves, I sort of just thought I'll have a crack and take the opportunity.

Ben Byrnes

Because you're sort of thinking like that being in front of people, it's a it's a very different role than a lot of us who are a bit more technical and consider ourselves more introverts. And it was pretty funny, like, and I I don't want to go too far into what we're going to be talking about, but I think the first week I started in at this company.

Ben Byrnes

I did a class like on advanced Revit in front of like sort of 11:50 people that had been using Revit for quite a while and it was one of those things like I probably couldn't see myself doing that previously. Being in front of people and talking for two days straight.

Ben Byrnes

But yeah, it was sort of I got through that. And yeah, I've ended up enjoying that and I probably wouldn't go back to drafting now.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah. Incredible. I I think so many people are there working on their BIM projects and some of them are like the vast majority of them are probably happy where they are. But there are also people who are could be keen to explore what different options there are.

Andrea Ciaffi

And and I know that sometime the change could be scary. There is a learning curve. There are few things you need to to to learn before you transition to a client facing role. But do you think that your end zone experience in beam has helped you in your current role?

Andrea Ciaffi

Do you think that was useful?

Ben Byrnes

Yes, definitely that, that's that's probably the the key. And I I think we even have some people and like everyone knows in companies you get people that don't come from industry and it's it's actually learning the industry that that's the hard bit.

Ben Byrnes

You know what I mean and I think coming from a lot of different companies, I saw the different way they do things and even over my career like I started on the board, I did a couple of years on the board. Then I went to like AutoCAD, DOS and then eventually to like BIM modelling.

Ben Byrnes

'Cause I've sort of done that myself. I know the shortcuts. I know how to transition between them and I know sort of. I've seen like a lot of companies do things different ways and I like to think I've been able to cherry pick the the best or that worked best in that instance.

Ben Byrnes

That worked best in this. And yeah, the hands on experience, that's that's been the key to it. Really. I think not to say that you couldn't do that without having the hands on experience, but. Yeah, it's definitely a big, you know, you know, the technical jargon, you know, the you, you know, some of the struggles that the clients have already.

Andrea Ciaffi

Because you've been on the other side, so all of the pain points and you can help them truly because you know how they feel. But from your point of view, so now you've been sitting on both sides of the fence, what are the biggest challenges that engineering and construction companies face when they have to choose beam software?

Ben Byrnes

I think a lot of it is that they they sort of one is the cost the the cost is almost reasonably prohibitive. Now, now that it's come up to the subscription as well. So back in the day you'd get like you'd pay your 5 grand for your AutoCAD licence and you'd have that forever.

Ben Byrnes

But sure enough, it would degrade over time, so you'd sort of want to upgrade, but you know, for most BIM software, as you're looking at thousands of dollars per year per user. So. So that's a big like monetary thing. The other thing that happens is a lot of people paint themselves into their corners.

Ben Byrnes

So if your company's been using Revit for years, and navisworks for clash detection, you sort of go well, everything works.

Ben Byrnes

So you're sort of hesitant to go to the next one and you're sort of losing a product that you trust and you know it does what you want it to do when you're going into something that may not tickle the boxes and that's what you have to take that almost a bit of a leap of faith into it and sort of just go in and the interoperability between the different softwares as well has always been a bit of a pinch point not to name drop all the softwares and and sort of shame some of the others but.

Ben Byrnes

As as people know, sort of Autodesk and Tekla, they don't really talk to each other. They're competitive softwares, so they don't really wanna help each other in that interoperability space. So that's one of the big important things.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, that's definitely true. And this company have developed it independently and they are competing. Of course there is no. They certainly don't want to help each other, so definitely and from your point of view, how do you actually help clients select and implement implement the right tools for their workflows?

Andrea Ciaffi

And if you can share any practical examples.

Ben Byrnes

Yes. Yeah. So that it's probably right. Like the right tools for their workflows that's that's probably the key to it. There, you've got to see what they what they're doing and what information they're getting from clients or or how they're doing that.

Ben Byrnes

And then from that, what are their actual outputs, what are their deliverables, what do they need to give to their clients and and you just try and basically fine tune that if if it's you know. Multiple softwares out there like celebre, revisto, et cetera.

Ben Byrnes

Like you get sort of just find some are better and some have their own. Better points or if I might say that and so you're better off steering them towards. One product over another, and that's that's where you sort of do that as an example.

Ben Byrnes

I I probably can't name John many companies and that, but even like a blue beam is a is a great software where a lot of people don't realise the extras, the extra stuff it can do. So you might have someone that's got basically a a quantity.

Ben Byrnes

And like a lot of the quantity tools and that are out, there are quite good, but they if they're only doing small quantities and that like bluebeam, can do that and a lot of them already have that software. So it's more a matter of trying to teach them how to how to use that proper workflow to get there, their stuff out.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, and totally like, if you may even a good example of blue beam blue beam is one of those tools that.

Andrea Ciaffi

I feel like people use what maybe 1% of what can be can possibly do and and I feel that one of the hardest things about your job is about demonstrating the value of the software to the customers that they are thinking about their life, thinking about their work and think about their projects, that they need to deliver.

Andrea Ciaffi

Of course they don't to spend their time to understand the value that. There is inside a piece of software. Also you mentioned that many of the people that work in the beam space are a little bit of an introvert personality. So how do you how do you present software demonstration and what's your approach to make it relevant to people?

Andrea Ciaffi

And the same time demonstrating values?

Ben Byrnes

When I was first turning the software demonstrations, they are used to really stress out about them. Probably shouldn't get a fair bit of anxiety, and I even had my daughter say no, you know, I get a bit and I said, oh, I get anxious a lot like, especially when you're doing a big demo, sometimes you'll see the attendees as well, which can be a bad thing.

Ben Byrnes

Yeah, you might say like an ex boss or something who's on it and you're like, oh, no. Like so.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah.

Ben Byrnes

Yeah, I always found there are good pressure tests the demos. So you you're sort of doing it live. People asking you to answer the question and you're like, oh, I haven't, like, done that question for like 2 years and you've gotta sort of think on your feet and get it done.

Ben Byrnes

One of the good thing like you say, how do I how do you make it engaging and relevant? The best thing is always to look at who's attending or who it's for. Always. Always look at the client. What I always used to try or still try and do is actually get their datasets, so if you're if if it's an architect that does high rise building.

Ben Byrnes

Don't try and show them how to measure up a a field. It's just not relevant to them and and you you can lose the room quite quickly where if you're actually bringing up their drawings or something that they do, that's where they start getting interested and that's where you'll you'll know you're engaging with them as well.

Ben Byrnes

'cause. They'll start asking questions. 'cause. I'll. Oh, yeah. I've thought about it. How do you? But how do you do this? So. So really making sure you've got the right data set. Sometimes, like I said, always reach out to the client themselves. Again, we're pretty protective about clients and that as well, so.

Ben Byrnes

It's actually building up your own library of content that you've got that are that's relevant, that they can flip to. Yep.

Andrea Ciaffi

It's it feels like it's about tailoring the technical demo to that specific one client you're speaking to.

Ben Byrnes

That's exactly right. Yeah. So, so tailor really tailored that technical demonstration to to them and what they do and. The other thing is as well that like don't run away from their pain points. They're really there to sort of see their pain points.

Ben Byrnes

They don't want to see something they're already doing that, that they know and that they're quick at already. They they don't need to see how to do a dimension, they they might need to see how to get that information to excel or something like that.

Ben Byrnes

So don't run away from their pain points. Try and hit them. Head on. The other thing is sometimes a more general demo like again you you look for the audience. So you might have like we do webinars as well and you'll have a great mix.

Ben Byrnes

Of people in it. So that way it's like I said, it's hard to have a data set, that's all things to all people. But what you might do is you might do sort of 10 minutes on a bit of an architectural work set and then you'll flip it to like a structural one or a civil one.

Ben Byrnes

You'll just try and change it so that at least you're giving something to everyone. The other thing is you'll get a broad mix of skill level. You'll get people who have never come across the software before. Or people that use it everyday. So you've got to sort of show it basic enough.

Ben Byrnes

And again you try to steer away from the point and click demos like that's what we call it like where you go. Hit this button go down, change this value. You're more showing them what it can do rather than the how to do it.

Ben Byrnes

And then that's when they will come back with the questions. I will say, how did you do that? So Yep.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, very valid points about demonstrating value at the end of the day more than.

Ben Byrnes

Yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

I think because I think as soon as a a client can see value in the products then there will be a lot more more motivated to learn how to use it and to bring some energy into this process. But there is always like difficult clients, right, clients that are sceptical that they want to adopt new technologies.

Andrea Ciaffi

How do you handle that situation?

Ben Byrnes

Yes. Yeah, that's that's pretty tough. You can get people, you know, you can get people that use Archi, CAD and and then you're trying like just as an example and then they want to go to or or the company wants to go to Revit and you'll get people that are just in the corner.

Ben Byrnes

I I wanna stay on AutoCAD on Archi CAD and I'm gonna fly that flag until this ship goes down. So. So they they're they're painted in the corner. They are very hard to win over.

Ben Byrnes

You will sometimes get them almost what I call stitching you up with a question with a question that they know that their software can do and they know that your software can't do it, so they will actually try and. And like stitch you up into a corner that well, if I can't do that, I'm not interested.

Ben Byrnes

I think one of the things is always to try and engage them. Some people you can't win over, they're just painted in their corner and that's that. But you always try and just say, well, how? And this is some of the benefits it can give you and how can you like you're trying to always engage them.

Ben Byrnes

And like I said, you don't try and run from it. You try and just just tackle them and and go into it. And try your best really.

Andrea Ciaffi

Let me yeah. You can't win them all. It just is somebody. It's sitting in a corner with a with a really preconceived idea that they don't want to do it.

Ben Byrnes

But some people are hard to win over. Yeah, yeah. And generally you come down to that efficiency like if you can show them some efficiency. Again, even if they're not like paying the bills or whatever, if they know that you can save them half an hour a day, generally you can start to win them over.

Andrea Ciaffi

Just try to try to. Yeah, definitely. And part of your job involves working with different teams like sales team and other stakeholders, engineers, business leaders. And I think like it's probably interesting to make it to explain to us what's the difference between your role and the actual sales role and how do you collaborate with the sales team in your everyday activities?

Ben Byrnes

OK. Yeah. So yeah, I work closely with sales. I do work closely with the clients as well. Again, you sort of find what, what tricks people are after or what what they want. So sales is like as we know probably pretty money orientated.

Ben Byrnes

So they're always looking for efficiencies. So so sort of on the client side, you're sort of. A lot of the BIM managers and that they're more looking to reduce the rework. And to really sort of trust and bring in standards and that where the more sea level they're not interested in so much the standards, but they just want to see that efficiency.

Ben Byrnes

So that's what you'll be showing them how to save time internally with sales teams. Yeah, it's a it's bit different. It's a different world.

Ben Byrnes

One that I didn't really look at and and they'll be all it's sort of the art of the deal and all that sort of stuff and they'll they'll be like it's it's real funny you'll be trying to help out this bloke and I'll be saying no. It's trying to say company.

Ben Byrnes

Don't worry about it where? Whoops. Sorry. So so don't be saying it's only three. Don't. Don't worry about it. Don't put the effort in and they want to put a lot more effort into like the 100 seat and and the more enterprise accounts.

Ben Byrnes

And yeah, can can be a bit difficult dealing with that and sort of make it and you'll have to shuffle quotes around and all that. We have a pricing system that sort of comes out that you'll always get pushed back. And yeah, again, different people have different targets.

Ben Byrnes

Sales is a very interesting based.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah. Yeah. And what, what do you think are the biggest challenges in your role when you try to tailor a solution to a specific client's needs?

Ben Byrnes

Yeah. Generally it's it depends if if the clients approached us generally they're looking for a solution. So and sometimes it can be a matter of managing how they want the solution to go. Like one one thing we do is a lot of contents and templates and stuff like that.

Ben Byrnes

Now it is funny, a lot of clients just want to basically go, Yep, his X $1000, do our template and then like hold us on the hook as. For the template doesn't work. We want you to fix it and go forever so.

Ben Byrnes

You've got really sort of almost get get your scope of works is and and even in like when we were doing buildings and that the scope of works is quite important and trying to avoid that scope creep and as well trying to always measure the expectations and always give them.

Ben Byrnes

This is what you can expect to get out of it. And like I said, don't run away from the don't avoid what it can't do. Just sort of say that this is like future work, or we're hoping to get that again where some of the things we're beholden to Autodesk as as one of the major resellers for Autodesk where.

Ben Byrnes

Like people go out would be good if it could do this. And you're like, yeah, it's a limitation of the software. It it can't do it. And that's where you might sort of start to steer them towards. Third party solutions as well to solve that particular issue.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, definitely. And for those who are less familiar about the different people involved in your role and the different stakeholders who are they and usually and what's their their role of these stakeholders? Because at the end of the day, you want to make sure the clients are successfully adopt the product or software piece of software.

Andrea Ciaffi

So what are the stakeholders and what's their role?

Ben Byrnes

So so the end user is probably one of the one of the major stakeholders. You sort of want to make sure that they're getting what they need to do, their tools and probably me as an end user. That's someone who I'm always focused on.

Ben Byrnes

And then you have their bosses, managers, directors who are who are then looking OK we've made the decision. We're going from Archi CAD to Revit or whatever and they've made that decision. So you've got to show them that ROI. The return on investment so.

Ben Byrnes

But you might have to show them. OK, he's a project you do, and in a lot of this as well, like, sort of going away from the stakeholders a bit. They're actually doing it to to solve an issue like, so they might be doing it to get that efficiency.

Ben Byrnes

A lot of companies expect we can. Change our software and straight away start to see that efficiency where realistically that's not gonna happen. There might be a six month journey to sort of actually make what they were doing before and then like start to get those gains out of it, particularly construction as as you know they're they're a very slow adopters.

Ben Byrnes

Because they can't take the risk because it's such a fast-paced industry. Even if you show them this is gonna work better by the time they go OK we invest in that software, then we train our staff to do it. We've we've sort of lost something on time in that which they sort of can't afford.

Ben Byrnes

So yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, definitely. And I think one of the big factors is about building relationships with clients. So you are you, you, you tell them that you describe a better future with a new piece of software and new technology. But at the end of the day, you still need to build relationship with these clients.

Andrea Ciaffi

It's very important. So what from your point of view is the most important factor in building this strong relationship with the clients and how do you build those relationships?

Ben Byrnes

I'm. Yep, I'll probably think the biggest thing with building those relationships is being contactable. That's being responsive. I've I've had like CEOs of companies, et cetera, and even like big directors of being able to almost call my mobile. I had one where sort of a certain software wasn't working.

Ben Byrnes

And yeah, I took the call at sort of 530 in the pub and that's all the the band noise and the poker machine noise and all that in the background and step outside and took the phone call. Now I'm not giving everyone my mobile number and I'm probably not gonna answer every call, but.

Ben Byrnes

The call and basically even mentioned that as as it was a real win point for them, that they were able to get someone on the phone to resolve their issue quickly and and I think like in any relationship. Watch girlfriends anything. If if you're responsive, that's half the battle is being there.

Ben Byrnes

You know, if you're there, people notice you're there, etcetera. You might not have to do much, but if you're there and contactable that, that's probably the big one.

Andrea Ciaffi

It's a very bad point. At the end of the day, it's all about people. We're all human beings, so there is another human being on the left side. And yeah, if if they can reach out to you with their concerns, at least they know there is somebody on the other side.

Andrea Ciaffi

But sometimes sometimes things go wrong and have you ever experienced situation where a client, some clients were unhappy and you have to recover a relationship?

Ben Byrnes

Yes. Yes, probably. Well, it's always more often than you would like, but it's not very often seldomly. But yeah, you do occasionally get clients that are unhappy, and usually it's that old thing. And especially with the sales and like we're talking about the sales and that before like sales will sell the dream and then it's on us as like the technical guys to deliver that dream.

Ben Byrnes

And generally that dream has been oversold. And and the cut and the sales guys told the clients everything they want. Yes, yes, yes. They've promised them everything. And then you've got a.

Andrea Ciaffi

Hmm.

Ben Byrnes

Sort of bring him back and sort of start to manage that the expectations. Yeah. So how how can you recover it? I suppose a lot of it is we had one as one example. I won't name the company, but it was it was content and we had to change all the content over from like Australia to New Zealand.

Ben Byrnes

I had different standards, different seismic requirements, et cetera on a lot of the families that we did. And and they run happy quite early because I think our company. Tried to like tried to not give it too many resources to sort of do it on the cheap a bit and and that didn't really work.

Ben Byrnes

So there was a bit of internal pushback from us and the guys to go. No, we need to throw more resources at it and a lot of it just came back to even the old BIM workflows, just break it down into small pizzas.

Ben Byrnes

What do you need to do to get it? And if you can sort of almost put that in an Excel or put it in some sort of thing where people can see the task that need to be done and you can show progress.

Ben Byrnes

That that's a way to really recover it. If you can sort of say, yes, we're chipping away at it, putting more resources. And if you can start ticking the boxes, that's how you can recover it. You know, some clients you might not see again, that's that's just part of it.

Ben Byrnes

Yeah. Yeah. But you do always try your best to make make them happy. Yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, I think this last point you made is it's the, it's the simplest but simplest explanation. I try to make them happy. And of course if they're reasonable and you've shown some progress. Surely they can understand that we again, we are all human beings.

Andrea Ciaffi

Part of your job is about, well, you're a consultant as well. So you you provide support and advice to companies, and that's also an interesting part of your job. So what are the common misconception that you see about beam software that you hear?

Andrea Ciaffi

From your clients.

Ben Byrnes

Yeah. Well, I I suppose, like, like, digital twins is probably a big one. A lot of people sort of start to think that, oh, that's gonna solve our problems. We can basically sign off a digital twin, give that to the client. Like the end user.

Ben Byrnes

And everything's gonna be all shiny. And it all works. Yeah, that's that's probably one of the the big ones. They're all thinking, oh, they can put dates in and then all of a sudden. Oh, yeah, I can see foresting. We're on level level 5 needs replacing in three months.

Ben Byrnes

That's probably the big misconception. Like it can or as we know, that can be done. It's possible to do it. The thing is, it's it's never gonna be really written in the scope.

Ben Byrnes

And because of that and because of all the different software and that it it is hard to mesh it all together, there is no one ring to rule them all sort of thing like it's it's not.

Ben Byrnes

And that's where like we're saying the interoperability and bringing across the different products and you sort of do hear it in in BIM and the the talk of that like it's it's really about improving it. At Arab, we used to have almost a digital maturity.

Ben Byrnes

Measure. Yeah. Which? Which is a great way. So it's it's not saying that any project's gonna be perfect, but we just want this project to be better than the last one. And we wanna sort of keep getting those those points up and and and sort of get to that perfect project which as we know.

Andrea Ciaffi

What happens?

Ben Byrnes

Is always elusive. Yeah, it's trick to get that real, real one.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, measuring the level of mushroom was a pretty smart way to convey the message that it is in black and white. It's it's really like a spectrum of levels of maturity as the world says. So even if people can understand that, it's not really black and white, that's already a step.

Andrea Ciaffi

We're already a step forward. One of the things that you do, like I understand, like companies, they need to think about workflows and potentially change the way they work sometimes. But what are the common workflow mistakes that you see that you see company make and?

Andrea Ciaffi

And how can they be avoided?

Ben Byrnes

One thing like as a bit of a structure like people try and do too much. So so I think and people try and play outside of their strength. Probably a classic example is like the this consulting engineer will actually start to put in.

Ben Byrnes

They'll start to model the end plate, start to model the connections and really start to go almost to that fabrication level and it's best left to the fabricators.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah.

Ben Byrnes

Mm hmm. What and and that? That's almost like a you can sort of take this across the board and it's probably a real good example. It's just the the fabricators themselves are gonna take your model. 80% of the time they're going to redraw and remodel their own model.

Andrea Ciaffi

Hmm.

Ben Byrnes

And they're not gonna trust your model, especially when they're they're next on the line. If something doesn't fit or whatever, they're they. They're not gonna really trust your model. Now, that's improving. The more that everyone's getting into beam and the and the accuracy and the power rather than that they are using each other's models more so to basically save themselves work.

Ben Byrnes

But they're not gonna use your base plates and bolts. They are going to redo their own connections. And that's where it's almost a bit of a workflow mistake, because they're sort of the consulting engineers putting a lot of effort into getting that model, you know, LED 450 led 400 getting every connection in there.

Ben Byrnes

But it's it's not needed. And that they're better off to almost and obviously you do one connection, you've got to do them all. So you're you're you're really expanding the amount of work you have to do and the fabricator. It's not gonna save them any much time.

Ben Byrnes

So yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, this is something we ear often like delivering to the right to the right level of Lod. Which could be challenging sometimes, especially if you want to over deliver, but then you end up over working. Yeah, definitely. So when a company tries to adopt new digital solution, this could be a pretty scary moment.

Andrea Ciaffi

There is an investment as you mentioned how expensive this piece of software can be. So what advice would you give to firms that are looking to adopt new digital solutions and what are the risks and challenges that you see during these? Specifically, this adoption adoption phase.

Ben Byrnes

I think the the big one is is just realising there's gonna be a bit of lost time. In that changeover, so you've gotta again, you've gotta look at that return on investment. And again, what's the final deliverable? What? What did they want? What brought them to that new solution?

Ben Byrnes

So and they've got a you've got to basically get them to that end point pretty quickly. So like if it was doing a clash detection and they want to have a dashboard for the for that clash for those clients. That's basically get them to that endpoint as quick as they can so that they can start seeing the actual deliverable that they wanted.

Ben Byrnes

Now, again, there's gonna be some lost time in changing the workflows around that and to getting that workflow efficient. And that's where you've really got to get some buying. We sort of call them the Champions. So you're always looking as in those end users, there will be someone who's either used the software before or they know it and they love it.

Ben Byrnes

So it's trying to identify that that champion that's gonna really back you up as the company and back that software solution as the right solution. And if you can get them on board they they can sort of push it through the company, so.

Ben Byrnes

You know the risks and challenges like generally it's gonna do what you wanted it to do. That's that's why you bought it. So we'll tick that box. But there will be challenges where some of the things that you did before are going to be harder or they're not going to work as well.

Ben Byrnes

So then it's sort of trying to come across, find those issues, find them early. And. Sort of. As we were saying before, don't don't run away from. From them, like, actually recognise that as a problem early and just try and find a solution.

Ben Byrnes

Generally there are solutions out there. Hopefully you don't need to make your own app or get involved in the API. Hopefully there is a ready made solution out there. To to solve that for you again, you're gonna fail. Everyone fails. I fell every day I think about that.

Ben Byrnes

Don't run away from that failure. That's that's where the it's. It's a bit funny and not to go, but that's that's where the money is. If you can find the failures and address them and fix them, that gets gets you the respect that gets.

Ben Byrnes

That's what people want.

Andrea Ciaffi

Definitely. And thinking about all of those people that are in the beam world and are considering the option of transitioning to euro like a technical sales role, what are the skills from your beam background that you think had been most valuable in your role today?

Ben Byrnes

Yeah, I think it's been a bit. Like on site discipline agnostic, which is probably a big, big word, but it just means like I've I've been, you know, spent 30 years as a as a structural modeller.

Ben Byrnes

But it's it's just being aware of the mechanical side being aware of the architectural side and having that sort of a bit more of a broader understanding about the different clients, different stakeholders and what they they need. And how that how they work?

Ben Byrnes

That's probably been the biggest advantage for me. I am known in the company as a bit of the. Like to go to for if they don't know who can answer the question, they'll come to me and then at least and. And this is what clients want as well.

Ben Byrnes

It's not. It's not having all the answers like I, I don't know everything. No one does. But I've got a fair bit of experience. And you can gain this experience as well by sort of going through and and, you know, having a look at YouTube and looking at those, those issues that people are finding and trying to find the right solution.

Ben Byrnes

And. Yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

And what advice would you give to somebody like with today's a beam technician and is looking to transition into consulting or technical sales?

Ben Byrnes

I think it's just, just never stop learning. So one thing is there's so many resources out there now and in a way it's too many resources and there are a lot of those like like we do training and a lot of people do training on YouTube and stuff like that.

Ben Byrnes

A lot of people know all the answers to the tough questions. But some of those fundamental stuff on how to set it up, that's that's what people need to know as well. Those real basic stuff. I stay ahead of the curve as such, so it's always hard to stay ahead of it, but always look at the what's new.

Ben Byrnes

You know, if there's a new like, what's new 2026 in Revit like, have a look at that, see what's new, you know, and start really trying to get that information. Like there's heaps of stuff on LinkedIn as well, YouTube. You know, everyone knows.

Ben Byrnes

The Balkan architect, for instance, you know, say, say sort of like, look at what's trending on YouTube videos and that you'll always find some little tips and tricks there and stuff and and that's how you build up your knowledge base. And like I said, don't run away from that issue that that even like there's something occurs in walls or something.

Ben Byrnes

I'm still not sure really how to do curtain walls in Revit very well. Don't run away from that. Like, have a look. Look at a few videos, learn that and put it in your skill set as well.

Andrea Ciaffi

That's great. Thank you, Ben. We are at the end of our episode. This was great and I think, yeah, the audience will find this very valuable. And just before we go, if people want to reach out to you, where can they find you?

Ben Byrnes

Well, just for everyone trying to reach out, I won't keep my mobile, but it's probably LinkedIn is probably one of the best ways you can just see. You can even message me on that or or just look look me up there. Yeah, you can probably find my e-mail if you looked hard enough, but probably LinkedIn is the best way to grab a hold of me.

Andrea Ciaffi

Thank you, Ben. Have a good day.