How I Built a BIM Community with Machiel Basson

Andrea Ciaffi

Hi, Machiel, welcome to the Digital Construction Podcast. Today, I'm very excited to have Machiel Basson. Hopefully, I said the name properly this time.

Machiel Basson

Yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

It would be interesting to hear about the original of your name, Machiel, and the story here in Australia. But today, I'm very excited to speak to you, Machiel, because you founded a community in Sydney. which is called the Sydney BIM Brews. It's a very nice community where people meet casually.

Andrea Ciaffi

You find it very interesting space where people can express their feeling, talk about what concerns them in the BIM space, but at the same time, learn something because I've seen you organize presentations as well. It's a very nice community here in Sydney, and I haven't seen many of these in my career.

Andrea Ciaffi

So I'm very excited to learn why you did it and how did you end up doing this. So I would like to start, if you can please tell us a little bit about your background, because I think that will help us understand a little bit more about your story.

Andrea Ciaffi

How did you get into BIM? And at the moment, you are working at Icon, but previously you worked at INBI, which is also another firm here in Sydney that is pushing for digital engineering. They're doing great work as well. So how did you Get into BIM.

Machiel Basson

Yeah, well, you also asked about my name. So the name is Doctor Origin with a French surname, but I was born in South Africa, immigrated in 2007 when my mum and dad came over and started the year. I got an interesting story, 'cause so...

Machiel Basson

I know that a lot of people in the industry are trying to force me back into my roots and they're very, very, very kind in doing that. But as a kid, I've always gone by Michael because it's the easiest thing to pronounce in Australia.

Machiel Basson

And the funny story was when, like in the first two weeks when we immigrated, I was like, we were staying at my cousin's place because we haven't found a place yet. And I remember sitting there in the playroom. I was 7. She was, I think, 9 or 11.

Machiel Basson

I can't remember which one. But when we were going there, we were like, she was trying to explain, like, brief me into this new world that I'd been brought into as a kid. And she was like, no one's going to get your name right.

Machiel Basson

You wrote my name on like a little chalkboard we had, scratched a giant line through it, like this is how you're gonna spell your, this is how you're gonna like pronounce your name, you're Michael now.

Andrea Ciaffi

I could well.

Machiel Basson

I know, but sorry for the longest I've responded to Michael, to Mikhil. It's the way the way that it goes. Being an immigrant in Australia, you just kind of have to adapt. But back to your other question. So how did I get into BIM?

Machiel Basson

So I started my tertiary studies at UTS. I was studying this degree called Civil and Environmental Engineering. So I've got both a civil background and then also the environmental engineering side, which is the design of waste landfall sites and water treatment sites. And the way that UTS does it is you do the normal degree.

Machiel Basson

With the normal degree, you generally get like 8 electives, where you get to pick eight of the 40 subjects to do whatever you want. But with the double degree, they use those eight electives to make your own, to give you that extra bit of the degree.

Machiel Basson

So I had my normal 32 subjects or something with my 8. environmental electives. And by the end of it, I was like, yeah, this really isn't really for me. I'm kind of tired designing wastewater treatment sites and landfill sites. I thought it was going to be a little bit more than this.

Machiel Basson

But I was stuck within that stream. I could only pick from environmental subjects. And in the last year, I get this e-mail from Julie, Julie, which was on your podcast before. So she recently moved from the design side to the engineering side at UTS, and she was starting this brand new subject called Introduction into BIM, or yeah, Introduction to Building Information Modeling.

Machiel Basson

And they were looking for students to take part in the very first undertaking of the subject. And she sent it as a broad e-mail to all the civil engineering students. But I wasn't able to actually select it. And I was so tired of these environmental subjects and I wanted to do something new.

Machiel Basson

So I reached out to them, it was like acknowledging the... The misprint in the e-mail of it being open to everybody, not actually being open to me, but I put it like, hey, I know it's a new subject, can I do this?

Machiel Basson

And I think Julie had to fight for me or like there's a whole conversation in the background, but eventually I got added into the subject and it's just been BIM ever since. I did my capstone with Julie. which is in DFMA, so Design for Manufacture.

Machiel Basson

And then Julie helped me get my second internship, which was at MB with David Foley and working on the Brandgroom Metro station.

Andrea Ciaffi

and see really great mentors. You've been lucky,

Machiel Basson

Yes.

Andrea Ciaffi

you've been very lucky at the beginning of your career. Well,

Machiel Basson

Yes, no, it.

Andrea Ciaffi

but I'm sure you deserve it. So it's been, yeah, it's a great start. It's a great start, great potential. You're doing well.

Machiel Basson

Yeah, it's definitely like two of the best people in the industry also jumped into one of the most difficult projects in the industry, just like... But it's been great, and the entire industry is really, really good.

Andrea Ciaffi

Well done, well done. And we know like BIM can be a pretty tough environment where you're chasing deadlines, complex projects, sometimes unknown space, people ask you to deliver things that in a way that maybe hasn't been delivered before. So your job is really demanding.

Andrea Ciaffi

And why did you take extra weight of building a community on top of this?

Machiel Basson

The short answer is necessity. So I knew that networking in this

Andrea Ciaffi

Nice.

Machiel Basson

industry was so important. Like I got my job through networking. I got my internship through networking. I got into that subject by networking

Andrea Ciaffi

Mm.

Machiel Basson

with Julie. So at that stage, I knew that networking was so important. But when I got into the industry, it was just after COVID. Everything got shut down in COVID. Nothing was running. I was able to take part in the last Sydney BIM before it shut down for a while.

Machiel Basson

And I was just stuck there, like, I want to meet everybody, but there's nothing, nothing happening. I think, so I attended a women in BIM event, and they only ran it like once a year, and I was like, Went to the drinks after, and we were discussing how, like...

Machiel Basson

It's really good to meet people and like you kind of want to meet them more regularly than once a year. And they were discussing that like a long time ago, there used to be an event that would run monthly where you could like get together.

Machiel Basson

I think it started as a Revit support group or something, but it ended up being like a little BIM group. and people who would join there. I think Dave might have been the one that started it, but I can't remember. Yeah, we were talking and it just kind of started in that conversation of like...

Machiel Basson

Why don't I just start my own networking group and meet the people that I want to meet? So yeah, necessity and then...

Andrea Ciaffi

Nice.

Machiel Basson

possibly being young and dumb and not knowing how much I'm getting my head into.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, because you always start these ideas with, oh, it's going to be easy. It won't be that much work and then you realize how much work is involved.

Machiel Basson

Yep.

Andrea Ciaffi

And when you started this journey, did you look at other communities inside or outside of BIM and just to shape the concept or was just like built from your own instinct?

Machiel Basson

So I kind of had the story of what it used to be. I know I discussed during that night, I think I was discussing with Al from CPB

Andrea Ciaffi

Mhm.

Machiel Basson

and like, we were just like discussing dates and he was like, you should do it on the 3rd Thursday. Nothing happens on the 3rd Thursday. So that's kind of where the date came from.

Andrea Ciaffi

Mm.

Machiel Basson

I've since realized that he was wrong. There's a lot of things that happened on

Andrea Ciaffi

Haha.

Machiel Basson

the third Thursday. But it's good to have a consistent day. And at that point, I've been a youth leader at my church for about 6 years. So I was running a youth group. I had experience running a group. I knew that some of the background It's a whole different beast running an industry group, but I had...

Machiel Basson

Some confidence in myself, and that kind of let me let me do that,

Andrea Ciaffi

Mm.

Machiel Basson

but I didn't really grab a lot of... Tab. like lessons from other communities. I didn't copy any other communities. I think the only one that I really got lessons from, which was SIDBIM. I had a chat with some of the people that were running SIDBIM and they're like,

Andrea Ciaffi

Mhm.

Machiel Basson

yeah, it's kind of dead at the moment since we don't have any sponsors. He was like, all right, lessons learned, don't have sponsors.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah.

Machiel Basson

Well, don't have the event be circled around needing sponsors, because I know that, like, CIDBIM, when you, or other events, when you hire an event space, it gets quite expensive.

Andrea Ciaffi

Mm.

Machiel Basson

And yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, and when you first told someone the idea out loud, what reaction did you get and how did that reaction shape your, what you did next? You already mentioned this Sydney Beam, but what about sharing this idea with people that were not like managers of communities?

Machiel Basson

Yeah, like, I think the first one I probably shared it with properly would have been either my now wife or my boss, Dave, and they were both very supportive, both knowing, like,

Andrea Ciaffi

Thanks.

Machiel Basson

my wife's also in the construction industry, so she's a site engineer. She also knows, like, the importance of networking. a different industry, but she knows the importance and how our industry is very much relationship driven. So they were both very, very supportive. I think Dave even helped me set up the first event by leveraging his network.

Machiel Basson

sending it out to his people and that's kind of where it all started.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, that's nice. And, you know, like sometimes, sometimes certain things look quite obvious when they're already been built and lots of people complain about lots of different things and sometimes they simply don't act on it. So I admire your energy and say, you know, I'll do this.

Andrea Ciaffi

And What was different about how you approached it? Why do you think people don't do it, even if they know that this was missing?

Machiel Basson

I think the real thing is, like, it's hard.

Andrea Ciaffi

The thought, yeah.

Machiel Basson

It's hard, yeah. Like for the first couple of times, like I would show up at the event, it'd be cold, it'd be wet, but it's the day that I chose and no one would attend.

Machiel Basson

Like, you leave that night so so drained and so so down that you're trying to give up, but then other nights you have, like, you run an event, like the school's event that I did with the schools and actually the sponsor and like 68 people show up.

Machiel Basson

Like, this this is great. And you know, so you kind of be like,

Andrea Ciaffi

Nice.

Machiel Basson

Yeah, it's hard. Some things are just hard.

Andrea Ciaffi

It's Andrea. Definitely, definitely. And talking about the structure and the format of the Sydney Bean Brew, Sometimes you have no presentation, sometimes you have presentations. You may have panel, no panel. You don't have sponsors pitching on the stage, like you said. So how did you end up with like thinking about this design and keeping it like casual?

Machiel Basson

Yeah, so that comes back to that, that lessons learned with Sydney BIM, and like they couldn't run because they didn't have a sponsor.

Andrea Ciaffi

Mm.

Machiel Basson

So I built the entire event around one being as openly accessible as possible. I wanted anyone like me. To get into, get into the door without, like, some of the higher events, like your Autodesk events, they're invite only. A fresh guy out of uni doesn't get invited.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah.

Machiel Basson

And so I wanted it to be accessible. but also wanted it to be able to run with no sponsor to make sure that it can run every single week, every single month, that I can meet people every single month. So that's kind of where it got built from.

Machiel Basson

And then later on, like, I wanted to get sponsors involved, get them to sponsor drinks, but it's, you're still limited. Because I didn't want to spend $20, 000 on a fully catered space or something, or 20 to $5,000. So I couldn't really have a presentation.

Machiel Basson

Like I was still at a bar, they couldn't put banners up. The best we can do was like a couple of streamers pretend it's a birthday. So That limitation is kind of what set the vibe.

Andrea Ciaffi

Mm. Yeah, and there is also another aspect which is the CPD, like the strong instinct sometimes with every event in this industry try to become tries to become a continuous continuing professional development opportunity because of course like people then see that they're probably a little bit more Attracted to it, how did you resist this pressure?

Machiel Basson

Yeah. Yeah, there definitely is a pressure. I guess we were to get the most bang for their buck because like they need to do

Andrea Ciaffi

Mm.

Machiel Basson

50 hours a year and it's a massive task if you're just trying to do it outside of work. I think in the BIM industry... We are a little bit lucky because the BIM guys don't have that requirement. We don't have a... Which is like maybe it's unlucky in a way as well.

Machiel Basson

We don't have a governing body that tells us, hey, you need to do 50 hours of BIM training every single year. Which is also why a networking event like this is so important because there's nothing, there's nobody actually formally sharing lessons learned in the BIM industry.

Machiel Basson

We have to rely on each other. We're in this together. But I think it's only just now when there's a couple of conversations at Engineers Australia to get digital engineering recognized as an official engineering stream. That was a big thing. I was civil, like I left civil and I'm like, well, I can't get chartered.

Machiel Basson

I'm not going to get a chartered engineer because I'm not a civil engineer anymore.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah.

Machiel Basson

I don't work on projects. Even though I do, I provide value to a project, but I don't have that need. or to be a CPD event.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah. It's a different path, yeah. And what changes in the room when you remove the agenda and what type of conversations start happening that wouldn't happen in normal event that typically ends as an agenda?

Machiel Basson

Yeah, no, that is a really good question. And it isn't something that I really focus on until you sent me the question beforehand. I started like thinking like, what does, like what really changes? And... One thing that I do see changing is the way that people connect.

Machiel Basson

Most of the Bim Brews events, there isn't a sponsor. Like, it's all self-funded. You're expected to buy your own drink, buy your own food. You're there for the conversation. So you get people that are either really interested in sharing or really interested in learning.

Machiel Basson

So it's a different crowd. But you also see like genuine generosity. Like you'll see a group and somebody would come and like the best story I have is this one guy came and he had an actual Print out of his screen. And it's like, hey, like I have this issue.

Machiel Basson

Here's the screen. Does anybody know what I need to do? What buttons I need to press? And they were like discussing on the piece of paper, like, hey, you need to go press that button. You go to this menu and you go to go down

Andrea Ciaffi

Wow.

Machiel Basson

there. And he's like making notes. And like, that's like the proper lessons that you like you don't get elsewhere. But like they also, everyone, like they bought each other drinks. In the end, there was like this general generosity of sharing both like funds and like sharing drinks and food, but also proper lessons learned, like sharing what you've learned, your experiences.

Machiel Basson

That's. You don't get that at an event that has a specific agenda and then 15 minutes for networking.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, definitely, definitely. The networking part is always a little

Machiel Basson

Yes.

Andrea Ciaffi

bit odd. And I'm sure there are people that are listening to this and thinking, maybe I should start my own community, my own city. What is the hardest part about keeping this format?

Machiel Basson

Then we kind of touched it before, but like the like failing at the start, like...

Andrea Ciaffi

Mm.

Machiel Basson

To have a community, you need a proper backing. And like, even some nights on my, like my most recent bin brews, I don't know when this episode is going to go out, but my most recent bin brews, it was the middle of school holidays.

Machiel Basson

FIFA just had their semi-finals. Everyone worked at 5 A.m. to go watch FIFA. It was cold, it was wet. Yes, I had a nice table, but I only had one person show up. And...

Machiel Basson

Like I kind of went there knowing that no one would really show up because it's not really, it's not a night that you want to, like you're thinking of going out to go have a drink. Like tonight you want to go home, cuddle up in bed, like be warm.

Machiel Basson

But knowing that, like, I still need to be there for that one guy that shows up. I can't just cancel the event because I think that one's going to show up because I've had other events where I thought no one was going to show up and then 20 people show up.

Machiel Basson

You never know, but you have to be there and you have to stick it out. I'm there sitting by my balloon and people walking by saying happy birthday.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah.

Machiel Basson

Like.

Andrea Ciaffi

And let's talk about the balloon. Let's talk about the orange balloon because it's, I find it very interesting. It's like, it makes it very recognizable. And where did this idea come from and why balloon?

Machiel Basson

Yep, yeah, definitely. So, like I said, we were at bars, like I can't put up banners, but I had this problem of like, so the initial place was Ryan's bar. Like, it fits probably 400 people, there's 400 different tables. Like, how do I, one, how do I find people that I've never met that are coming, that didn't tell me they're coming?

Machiel Basson

And 2, how do they find someone that they've only seen the picture of on LinkedIn or not even just got my e-mail and don't even know what I look like? How do I make it easy to find? And I, I saw this, this YouTube video.

Machiel Basson

of a couple, I think a couple of mum or their dad, I think there's a couple of versions out there, where the one person had a balloon and they like taped it to the other person's backpack. And as I would walk around the store, this giant balloon just pops up and you could just follow the balloon.

Machiel Basson

So that's kind of where I got the motivation from. And then orange being the complementary color to blue, which was Inby's color. I was like, I want to be distinct from Inby. So I took the color wheel, I found Inby's color, I went all the way across, and it's different to Inby.

Machiel Basson

So I made it orange.

Andrea Ciaffi

That's great, that's great. And I think you started this community from zero. It's a network, it's a community.

Machiel Basson

Yes.

Andrea Ciaffi

And did you find that LinkedIn was useful in helping that in promoting as a promotion channel or even as a way to legitimizing a communities in the eyes of Busy professional.

Machiel Basson

I do believe that LinkedIn does help legitimize it. But what I will say and what I have learned is LinkedIn's...

Andrea Ciaffi

Mm.

Machiel Basson

Doing promotions through LinkedIn is really hard. I don't run enough things. I don't want to bombard people with a LinkedIn post every three days to actually get the proper following in LinkedIn. So to do proper marketing in LinkedIn, you have to post every one or two or three days.

Machiel Basson

So you have people jumping from one post to another and you have that like rolling ball. Yeah, you have to get the snowball effect. So you have to do 10 posts a month to really get that. And like, I do one event a month.

Machiel Basson

I'm going to send you guys a heads up before maybe a heads up right before. So I found LinkedIn, while I do believe it's important and people do come from LinkedIn, I don't think that it's the main driver. The bigger thing that I found worked really well was emailing people, so having a proper e-mail chain.

Machiel Basson

Even then, like, I had the Google Form that people would sign up on and I would often forget just like two days before, like, oh, wait, it's Bimbridge time. Go get the e-mail. Go see who signed up. Go copy that list and send the e-mail out.

Machiel Basson

Um... So marketing hasn't been my strong suit, but it is something that I'm working on now. So I've actually bought the domain for Bim Brews, City Bim Brews. I've got, yeah, I've got a proper e-mail that went out,

Andrea Ciaffi

Congratulations.

Machiel Basson

was going out. last month where I switched jobs and didn't have a laptop. I didn't plan ahead.

Andrea Ciaffi

Ah.

Machiel Basson

But like, these are all lessons learned. We all have our own struggles in our own little projects. We all need to learn and learn from and continue working towards. But hopefully now I've got everything to stop any systems in place.

Andrea Ciaffi

Nice. And did you find that events like Sydney Build or a sponsor like Revisto help accelerate the growth of the community or still just like emails or?

Machiel Basson

Yes, no, leveraging other events is definitely something, something that does. I don't know if it grows, but it gives people an opportunity to get more out of the one event.

Machiel Basson

It's like knowing that there's actually a free networking event after Sydney Build that are actually people that I work with, people that are in my specific niche of the industry, people know that like, hey, we can go there and... Actually have a chat with people that do the same thing instead of...

Machiel Basson

The massive one which builders, and while they're also important and getting out to the industry, we also have a unique. unique needs and a unique subclass of the industry that we need to share lessons learned, work together.

Andrea Ciaffi

And sometimes I think about this first time attendees, right, these people that come to the event for the first time. Is there anything that you think you did, could be intentionally or just by accident, that converted them into people that start coming back to the events every time, month after month?

Machiel Basson

Yeah. Yeah, no, so in recent times, I figured there's this thing called like a marketing funnel, which like, you get your first interaction,

Andrea Ciaffi

Mmh.

Machiel Basson

which might be like the LinkedIn or your e-mail, and then like, some of those go down to the next step, which would be coming, some of those would come down more often, more often. I will admit that I... completely suck at this. I'm not, I haven't done marketing before.

Machiel Basson

It's an entirely new skill that I need to learn and figure out. And even now doing Bimber for three years, I don't really think I have it down pat. So getting first time attendees to become multiple attendees has kind of been naturally occurring.

Machiel Basson

One thing that I do, I do try is I do try to like recognize people that do come. If there's a new attendee, I do try and meet up with them, like have a chat with them, make sure that they feel included. And if they're...

Machiel Basson

If they come from a specific reason, sometimes it's like, I want to talk about Revit, I want to talk about Revisto, or hey, I'm just new to Australia, I want to make connections, or I just lost my job, I'm looking for, looking to hire.

Machiel Basson

I'll try and connect them with the right people in the group that are attending that day. So like if someone's new to the industry or looking for a job, I'll try and connect them with some of the more senior people in the group.

Machiel Basson

who might know about opportunities that are going around. I think I've had three people get hired or four people get hired through Bimbrus,

Andrea Ciaffi

That's nice.

Machiel Basson

which even that, it's a really good achievement for what little group we have. But then again, it's also like it's natural, like you have to make connections, you have to you have to know people to get to get hired.

Machiel Basson

Or the same way, like that that story with the A4 page, like you come and like, hey, you know, I could, you know, I could, you know, I could talk together. They actually brought their own friend over to bring to talk to, but that's just an example.

Machiel Basson

People come for different reasons, and I try and be be a good host and make sure that they they get they get out of it what they try and get out of it. But you come from different reasons.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah. And when you start a new idea, there is always like people that support you, people are a little bit skeptical. There is also an issue with like some politics of the new ideas, you know, like did you encounter, so you said that your previous employer was very supportive also, it helped you.

Andrea Ciaffi

get started with their network. But did you find any resistance when you started Sydney Beam Brews or from any part of the industry?

Machiel Basson

There wasn't a lot of resistance. But I think the main two things was some people got confused between me and women and bim. They thought that this was a women in BIM event and like guys couldn't attend. I'm like, no, it's different. And even for the women in BIM event, I'll give them women in BIM events, I'll give them a bit of a shout at that.

Machiel Basson

Like it's not just women only. If you're a guy, you can attend. They're very nice people and they do run very, very good events. And the other bit of like, not resistance, but like feedback I got was like, hey. being an event that's at a bar surrounding by alcohol, like alcohol being one of the main things of the event, people that don't drink alcohol can't really attend.

Machiel Basson

So I often drink a non-alcoholic drink just to make those people feel welcome. But I, yeah, like not every single event is going to be for every single person. If you, there are people that this won't be for them, like they can't, they can't drink alcohol, they can't be around alcohol.

Machiel Basson

This is not the event for them, but I'm not going to try and have this event. meet every single need of the industry. Like I need to pick a segment of the market and a specific goal. for the actual event. There are other events that do other things very well.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, and thinking about the employer support, so you've been supported in the sense that they said, yeah, it's fine, we will give you the network. Did you give you any additional support or on top of the like the list of people that help you get started?

Andrea Ciaffi

Because I'm trying to think. You know, sometimes in this industry, people say, people seek the support of the employers. It's kind of like a way to get some level

Machiel Basson

Mm.

Andrea Ciaffi

of, so there is 2 parts. So there is the actual support and there is the permission. A, is it okay if I do this?

Machiel Basson

Yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

Would you be upset? What type of advice would you give to somebody the Bing World that wants to start the similar community, I don't know, somewhere else.

Machiel Basson

Yeah, no, definitely start with having a conversation with your employer. I know a lot of employers have like a bit of a budget for promotions and outreach, that kind of stuff, and this can fit into that budget. Other employers don't have that budget, but they're willing to help where they can.

Machiel Basson

A lot of Because BIM is such a small, small industry, a lot of the companies that are embracing BIM are keen to share that they are embracing BIM because it is quite expensive and they want to get the most out of it. So I've had a lot of good conversations with builders that are embracing BIM and architects and people who...

Machiel Basson

might have a little bit of budget to sponsor an event or host the events. A lot of those being used by some of the other events in the network. And. The other part of the question, what was the question again? Provide me.

Andrea Ciaffi

What type of support do you think? Like, what's the best way to approach their

Machiel Basson

Yep.

Andrea Ciaffi

employers and... And do you think, so what type of advice would you give to people that want to start?

Machiel Basson

Yeah, just have the conversation. Other advice, I would say, make sure that when you start. You do have a bit of a... A core or a niche. I like the word core because it reminds me of, I don't know, if you've seen, I think it's Guardians of the Galaxy.

Machiel Basson

The other Guardians movie where like Santa was going through the little doll, like going through, like, you have this, you have this, you have this, you have this, but at the core, you are this. Like at the core, Bim Bruce is a networking event designed for people to make industry connections.

Machiel Basson

That is the core. Everything else is built around that core, so lessons learned. knowledge sharing, presentations, forums, they're all around that core of networking. Whereas other events might have a different core. But make sure you have that core and that you're able to stand behind that core because you're going to be stuck with it for a while if you choose to do this.

Machiel Basson

It takes about 3 minutes. Three years to actually get. Something properly off the ground. And... Yeah, make sure you have a full understanding of what you are trying to do and that no one else is already doing that. Because someone is already doing that, you might as well go join forces with them instead of trying to divide.

Machiel Basson

Divide the crowd.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, definitely. And before this conversation, we were talking about how important it is for being professionals to have a community of their own. Because other professionals in this industry, I'm thinking about engineers and architects and the more traditional jobs, I guess I'll call them, they they already have their associations, they already have their meetups, they already have kind of everything they need in a way.

Machiel Basson

Yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

And the BIM people maybe a little bit less. So on top of that, it's just also it's a type of job that requires people to spend a lot of time In front sitting in front of a computer and not spending a lot of time networking and speaking with other people, which then, in a way...

Machiel Basson

Yep.

Andrea Ciaffi

helps them develop these additional level of isolation. They become even a little bit more introvert sometimes, probably because they have not been exposed to the outside world, right?

Machiel Basson

Yep.

Andrea Ciaffi

So do you see, I guess the question is, do you see that in your communities, isolation shows up in People that come to the city have been bruised and, or not at all, what do you see?

Machiel Basson

No, I definitely see isolation in the industry. Like when I was working with Barangaroo, we had my, the entire team that I was working with was upstairs and me, the BIM guy, got shoved in the corner downstairs away, like at the entrance, like with the reception like...

Machiel Basson

But I'm with them, like a part of their team, like, yeah, but we had our seats up there, but you get you get pushed to the side in like being pure pure BIM.

Machiel Basson

Like people also don't know where you actually sit, like you're half tech support, half project team, and where do you you don't really fit in any of the the groups that are already already created, so there definitely is a bit of isolation in our industry as we...

Machiel Basson

Like, we're too new to be part of the standing groups, which is the same reason why we don't really have a lot of industry around it, like... There's, we don't have the $100 history or $1000 history that civil engineering has.

Machiel Basson

We knew we're in this ever-changing network, but that also means that it's why having a network is so important, because things are changing so quickly, also not changing, but... There's a lot of things changing very quickly around us with the advent of AI and digital systems and MCP protocols.

Machiel Basson

A lot of what we do is changing. Like I see people on LinkedIn creating Revit models from using AI. By the click of a button, they've got the full thing set out. I think it'll be years before it actually replaces us. in terms of our modeling, because it doesn't do exactly what we wanted to do.

Machiel Basson

And there's a lot more away from the computer experience that we bring into the coordination and lessons learned from previous projects that doesn't get captured in those things. But it is an ever-changing thing, and we need to start sharing those lessons learned, because we are such a young industry.

Machiel Basson

Yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

And do you see, like people usually speak a lot in project meetings, right? They are designing something, there is a project, of course they are talking. But what are the conversations that you see Sydney being bruised that you almost never hear inside a project meeting?

Machiel Basson

Yes. I would say been bruises a lot. more relaxed and people share a lot more. You find out that maybe there's a client that you guys have both dealt with. You guys can both share the experience of that client being a painful client or that client being a great client.

Machiel Basson

Or there's this common thread of issues that come up. project on project on project and you're able to share that with other teams and see, hey, you guys also have that problem. Like my. A growing pet peeve is project coordinates never being in the right spot.

Machiel Basson

Have. Like I always start with a project and it's like, hey, are your coordinates in real world coordinates? Are they linked to a survey drawing? Are they in the MGA system? Are you guys using the right MGA system? Because that's important. And it almost never is.

Machiel Basson

But it's a common issue on almost every single project with every single person that I talk to. To the point of, like, between one and every three Bimbridge, we can just have a collective groan. That someone's bringing this up again, and it it's... Like it's it never changes.

Machiel Basson

And that kind of thing doesn't really come up in just like on a single project meeting because it's not really relevant to that meeting, but it's good to actually acknowledge together that we're in this together and we have these common threads that irrespective of are we working together on a project, are we competing for that project?

Machiel Basson

Ideally, we work together as an industry and solve some of these. Beyond the competition.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah. Yeah, the coordinates one is an interesting one. Like I remember many years ago I saw a project that the architectural model was in Russia, but in Siberia in the middle of nowhere where there is no buildings. So that was like an easy fix.

Machiel Basson

Yep.

Andrea Ciaffi

Sometimes it's hard when it's brown by 4 centimeters because it looks like it's in

Machiel Basson

Yes.

Andrea Ciaffi

the right spot. You need to be very careful. And Thinking about the future of Sydney, Beam, Bruce, what do you see? What do you think it will be in the next three to five years? Do you think it will be bigger, different, or replicated potentially elsewhere, or maybe deliberately small?

Machiel Basson

That is a pretty good question. I probably say as a starting point, I want BimBridge to still be here. Make sure that it is still running to some degree, still going on monthly. I am, like, I am keen to grow, to grow the group and like keep it bigger, but you can't grow too much without losing its charm.

Machiel Basson

I do hope to run a couple more events that are more formal, try and put like a proper schedule in as we grow, kind of get things formalized away from the sort of startup group into something that actually has a system that is running.

Machiel Basson

And I'm trying to work with other event producers, so. Like Sydney BIM Brews, like Sid BIM, Women in BIM, Autodesk Events. I want to work with all of them and try and build a proper calendar for the Sydney events, so be able to step on each other's toes.

Machiel Basson

Anyway. So that's kind of where I'm focusing my efforts on for the next couple of years. I don't know if I'm going to play a part in replicating it in other areas. I don't think that every area needs a BIM Bruise. Like, I know Brisbane, they've got their own event that is like Sidbane, but runs every month.

Machiel Basson

So they don't need a BIM Bruise to the same degree. Like, they have that monthly connection point. Whereas other places don't, and they need that multi-connection point.

Andrea Ciaffi

And what lessons do you think you've learned from running this community? Do you think the broader digital construction industry had not observed yet?

Machiel Basson

I don't think people realize, maybe they do, but some people don't realize how interconnected we are. I constantly see it where a process from one project that was developed for that project migrates into another project with a different team on a different client, different everything.

Machiel Basson

But that process has been copied, it's been shared, and it's gotten there.

Machiel Basson

And, as people develop really cool things, they do kind of slowly trickle the way through the industry, because we all want to want to get better, and, like, you'll have on that one project you have the electrical guy working for that project, he moves to another project, shares that with the hydraulic guy on the other project, he can share with that project again, and, like, as Chinese whispers.

Machiel Basson

In a way, as well, I would like to see our industry come together and kind of figure out what... what we really want for the industry to do in trying to solve some of those common problems. or acknowledge that like, hey, yes. Day by day, we're competitors, but at night we're also friends, like we..

Machiel Basson

. Tomorrow you might not be a competitor, you might be with another company and we might be working together. Which is kind of the experience with like switching from MB to Icon I've had is like...

Machiel Basson

Back at NB, like 2 weeks ago, I was competing with other other BIM teams, and now I'm... in the shoes of the contractor, forced to be friends with all those people and build those connections. Like, yes, I was never really enemies with them.

Machiel Basson

At MB, we acknowledged that, hey, we're in the same industry. But it's a whole different perspective of knowing, like, hey, We're all in this together, this boat floats or sinks together as an industry.

Andrea Ciaffi

That's nice. And if you could give one piece of advice to a BIM professional, somebody who is listening and still feels disconnected, what would you tell them?

Machiel Basson

I, I saw this question when you when you sent it in in the questions list, and I was like, my very first thought, and... It's probably not the best answer, but I can't get away with it. Like, if you feel disconnected, you probably are.

Andrea Ciaffi

Mm.

Machiel Basson

I acknowledge that you probably are disconnected and it probably is something that you should work on. I definitely think that everybody in our industry should have some form of a network around them because we live in such a relationship-driven industry. It is how a lot of our industry goes, is how people know who to send tenders out, is how people know who to hire.

Machiel Basson

Even now, when I meet someone and I realize that, hey, I've got somebody in my network that knows that person, I always like, I do a bit of background research on that. It was like, hey, do you know this person? You worked, I saw you guys work together.

Machiel Basson

You guys crossed paths. Is he good? Is he bad? What do I need to know? That's how our industry works. People trust each other. So, you kind of want to get into those circles. If you're in Sydney, I would say come to BIM Brews, a bit of selfless promotion.

Machiel Basson

But there are a host of other events, like Women at BIM, they're all across Australia and I believe Asia specific as well, all across the world. They do a host of events that are good to attend. All the. State BIM, Sydney BIM, Brisbane, Melbourne, WA BIM.

Machiel Basson

I think there's a whole bunch of those events that are running, keep an eye out for them, like try and attend events, try and build that network. And don't be afraid to go directly to people, like go to LinkedIn, search up Sydney plus BIM professional.

Machiel Basson

Find people that are working both on your projects or on projects you would like to work with. Just say, hey, I'm rather new to the industry or like, hey, I'd just love to connect. I don't have a good network. I'm trying to build it up.

Machiel Basson

And don't be afraid to catch up for a coffee or for a lunch. That's how you build the network. This is coming from an introvert as well.

Andrea Ciaffi

That's me. Nice. Sometimes the interests that try to push themselves out of their comfort zone and end up being the community.

Machiel Basson

Yes, it, yeah, it's a bit of a skill you should have to have to build.

Andrea Ciaffi

Nice. So we are at the end of this episode. If people want to reach out to you, where can they find you?

Machiel Basson

Definitely. So first protocol probably LinkedIn. Like I'm on there every couple of days. And I'll send you a link to add below if you guys want to connect with Bim Bruce. There'll be a form that you can sign up with. But yeah, otherwise reach out to LinkedIn.

Machiel Basson

If you have my e-mail, reach out. I'm always there.

Andrea Ciaffi

Rachib Basson, thanks for joining us on the Digital

Machiel Basson

Thank you.

Andrea Ciaffi

Construction Podcast.

Machiel Basson

It's been a pleasure and an honour.