OpenBIM, AI and Coding: Why Engineers Should Care with Dr Yatong Nie

Andrea Ciaffi

I'm very excited to have you here today on the podcast and today we are going to talk about digital engineering in construction with Doctor Yutong Mia. She currently works as a digital engineering coordinator at GAMUDA, but previously she had similar roles at WSP and other similar companies.

Andrea Ciaffi

But we're going to share her career path. But now digital engineering can improve processes for the construction industry. But before we start, I have a couple of ice brigades for you. Along is that OK with you?

Yatong

Yes, that's perfect.

Andrea Ciaffi

Amazing. So if you could have any skills or ability could be real, could be fictional. What would that be?

Yatong

I'm yeah, that's a really interesting question. I guess I always always want to have anyway, though that is kind of a small tool in the diamond that cartoon. I don't know if you have watched that before.

Andrea Ciaffi

I love it. Yeah, I love it.

Yatong

Yes, yes, I really love it. It's like, you know, it's basically can bring you to anywhere in the world. Just by thinking of the destination. And because for me, I always think you know my my leave is not enough. Every year, so I spend lots of time on the flight to if I want to go back because I'm from China.

Yatong

So if I want to go back to China, so I probably will spend half day on the three day on the plane that takes me too much time. So I think ohh if I get this anywhere at all, I can just go anywhere for holidays 35 once.

Yatong

So that's pretty cool.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, I ideally I would love to have that. I'm originally from Italy, as people can tell, probably from my accent and and if I still at that I could maybe shave 24 hours of travel every time I have to go to go and see my family.

Yatong

Yes, I'm sure, yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

That's great. And if I think about your career bad spelling with many people, you may have many different mentors. But what is the best piece of advice you've ever received in your career?

Yatong

I think I remember a very recent one. I just got from my mental in my project and one project, so I think his perspective is very different for me because he's kind of, you know, the technical director for the whole project. So what he told me.

Yatong

Like we should always find the critical aspect of a project. So for the project, I guess our understanding is the programme is always the first important critical aspect and also safety, environment and quality. Than all the. Kind of important. The banks of the.

Yatong

Project. So that's where we should. Whatever we do, you know the. Due to engineering, the design team construction team. Ohh everyone should be kind of for their efforts on this critical aspects.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, I'm in that. I can't agree more with that. Um, it's very important. We always have to think about safety and environment and I agree 100%. And if you think about your career, can you start telling us a bit of your career journey for people are not as familiar about your story and what led you to work in the digital space for the construction in the city?

Andrea Ciaffi

So why are you doing this today?

Yatong

Yeah. Thank you. Um, I think my journey for the digital space, the digital industry, all kind of started when I was doing my PhD back in 2018.

Yatong

I think during that time that's when the AI started to be very popular and everyone kind of did not talk about the even though I'm doing research, I can hear you people doing the research by using AI quite often and AI I think is doing even until now.

Yatong

It's kind of the annual keyword for Eva. Yeah, by the most popular keyword. So that makes me think of like, why AI is that much powerful and how we can bring a bridge the gap between the Syrian engineering, which is a kind of like relatively traditional industry with this AI deep learning machine learning this new emerging high technology industry.

Yatong

And then after I graduate from my PhD, I joined the Small design consulting firm, which is the deceased consulting. To that's the. First time I got some hands on experience on the digital engineering industry. So back then I worked on some of the major infrastructure projects in New South Wales.

Yatong

I like the amfar and 6:00 and also some my money, the road projects. And then that was the first time I get to know about the ICF this kind of open file formats. It also gives me some chance to write some of the scripts to automate the work flows, make the process more efficient.

Yatong

That's kind of make me, you know, excited, I'll say. Ohh yeah, I can do the too much. Lots of things in the digital world and then?

Yatong

I meant to the WSP, still cannot focus on the digital engineering and I was working on some of the train station upgrade projects and also I was working on the One Victoria project which is the source Sudan to warn ponds really duplication in that project.

Yatong

I kind of I've got to know. You know how to set up a more efficient and easy to use digital workflow to help the coordination and collaboration between the design team and construction team. And now, after Muda, I'm looking after the M1 Pacific Motorway extension project and also some of the other small tender projects.

Yatong

So this is kind of the first time I work on the construction company, so it's totally different side and it gives me very different respect is on how the models and the data can directly impact on site. Impressions. So I started to think more and put more focus on how we can use the models data to bring the practical value to the construction team.

Yatong

What our construction team really need and how we can help them and how we can make the construction more efficient and I have to say like my experience income, whether is quite challenging at the beginning because you know he said, because we different world, but it's a really rewarding experience and I do enjoy this.

Andrea Ciaffi

But thank you very much for the introduction. I can see how you your career has evolved between consulting and construct and the company they actually build.

Andrea Ciaffi

The stuff that the consultants design, so it's very interesting to see your to understand your point of view and see what you have learned during your career journey because yeah, maybe this problem can be solved in slightly different ways from different point of views.

Yatong

Yes.

Andrea Ciaffi

And yes, I'm very keen to learn about that today and maybe let's start simple and let's start thinking about the actual word digital engineering and what that means because. I'm not sure like I'm not sure we all agree on what that means, so I'm very, very keen to understand what does engineering mean for you in the context of the modern construction.

Yatong

Yes, yes. I think the dish. Engineering everyone must have a very different understanding of Diggy, but for me, I guess. The biggest part is definitely the 3D models. That's the most like popular concept in the I guess, but it's not only just about 3D models, it covers much, much more broader concept.

Yatong

For me it also covers data automation and the visualisation. So it's more about how we can integrate this. All of this de. And into the every every phase of a project. So it can connect the design, construction and operation maintenance. Through the digital work flows.

Yatong

And I think the. Key spirit of the is try to ensure the information is all accurate, accessible and actionable for all the projecting members. And also I guess another spirit I really like is we all want to work smarter, not work harder. To there is always a better way than can make us work smarter.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah. No, that's great. Like I myself experienced the transition to digital engineering and how that evolved overtime and there was a period of old say from our interviews strong and like ambiguity. It wasn't entirely clear what this discipline was supposed to do, and now I can see how the discipline is evolving and becoming more and more clear.

Andrea Ciaffi

And that is also helping the reputation of this discipline. And now this is changing the world of construction. Now one of the outputs of the digital engineering as a discipline is the digital tools. And they're probably changing the way construction overlay construction companies operate.

Andrea Ciaffi

So, but from your point of view, how are these digital tools changing? Are they? Are the construction companies operate on the everyday? Tasks.

Yatong

Doesn't ever changed a lot. It is kind of transform the way you know, I guess probably too big aspects. The first one is transform the way that the different teams from the different teams collaborate with. Each other and the second big one is how we make the decisions based on the data instead of, you know, some old reports things.

Yatong

So for the first one, you know in the past I guess most of the construction team they used to work heavily rely on the paper drawings, but it's kind of that hard like we have the paper drawings printed.

Yatong

It's hard to confirm if this is the latest version of you know, I'm using the old version, probably each one different people has a different version, so it's kind of hard top which is.

Yatong

Other the now because we have the CD's and the common data environment setup and also some of the cloud based platform and it helps us that helps the whole project team to make sure that everyone on the project have access to the latest and the most reliable data.

Yatong

So this means. Right. No matter you are the engineers, the project managers, construction team, the design team, everyone have access to the same data and we talk on the same page. So I think that's a perfect thing for us. You know when. You are really running a project.

Yatong

And the other. Impact, I would say is that decision making this on the latest data is I guess it's kind of the common practise now for many of the big construction companies that we have lots of the live dashboard which we can put the latest offer from you know the models and the survey will survey and jazz this platforms.

Yatong

So we can track the progress, we can even focus on cost and manage the risk in real time. And that's the. Biggest change I can see I think.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah. Now definitely, definitely. I agree with you. It's it's interesting. How did you engineering has been able to benefit from and a series of different different factors, so some of them could be related to hardware. The introduction of new techno hardware technologies people may think of drones so like physical devices that enable things like reality capture, for example, but also from the software contribute.

Andrea Ciaffi

So there has been a shift at transformation that has supported the digital engineering this. Thing which then, as emerged to take advantage of these changes. Can you think of any other key benefits of digital engineering in the real world? Anything else you'd like to add?

Yatong

Um, yes, I think. Still, that the big still benefit from me is definitely to change the way the team can communicate and collaborate. So because now we have additional models, right? So before I guess. When we discuss something, you know, during construction, everyone's talking to the right.

Yatong

So you see like, but the problem of 2D. Please say if I couldn't really gather full picture of what you are talking about. Probably the image in your mind is not the same as. The image in. My mind. So that's the biggest issue.

Yatong

But now, because we have the 3D models, so we can pretty much talk the issues when we look at the this. City environment. So for example. Like in one in my the project I'm working on so. We have set up. The 2D and 3D model overlay features.

Yatong

So this means we really are reviewing the 2D drawings, we can kind of overlay these 2D drawings on a 3D environment so we can have a full picture of you how these two D join this. You know the construction of the plant view works in the 3D environment.

Yatong

So this means when the team are talking about discuss any of the issues, there won't be any misunderstanding and it facilitate the better communication. And this this 3D model another like I think a very useful feature is the clash detections we all know.

Yatong

00:13:59 Hmm. Like you know, if we is this another common practise now is we do all the class detection before we run into the construction. So I guess we can kind of eliminate every say like 90% of the clash issues in the design stage and that's definitely reduce lots of the rework, the rework, it's the biggest pain I guess in in the construction as well.

Yatong

So that's the benefit I guess from the 3D model perspective, but now you know not only we have the 3D people start to talk about more about 45 year, even 60. So the 40 simulation I guess and is another key benefit because you know before the before the construction team really start working, they can simulate what is going to happen on side.

Yatong

So they can identify any of the issues that. You know safety. Risks early and resolve them early so. I think I have like yeah, put a lot of things here, but the the key, yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

No, I agree. There is a lot going on and and it feels like now that digital engineering is improving the way people communicate on site and during the design phase. If it's like it has created a new language that enables the different parties to speak in a more efficient way, that then means minimises.

Andrea Ciaffi

What? As you said, I work, minimises mistakes, which then overall leads to a better, better construction and overall leads to reduced cost which then. It's it's, it's an improvement for the society as overall as an overall entity because. It would make. Buildings more accessible at a lower price and probably over better quality, which is a big win.

Andrea Ciaffi

So sometimes we think about these digital tools as just like a way to improve efficiency, but ohh I would say let's also think about the impact that that can happen. Side and and Illinois, which is all of us now. Yeah, yeah. Every transformation as challenges, so we are not yet to say it's all easy.

Andrea Ciaffi

We we just we just get, we know that every single transformation without challenges. But from your point of view, what are some of these key challenges that you see? And yet everyday work.

Yatong

And that definitely some very big challenges for me. I guess the challenge at the challenge is the actual implementation. I would say on because at the moment I guess many of the companies, organisations and the government, we have already done lots of the DISH engineering strategies, planning the road maps policies, but all of these things, all of these are better of technologies.

Yatong

They won't drive the change.

Yatong

Selves, unless they are implemented by so it's kind of the heart by the challenge is how can we um 10 this kind of the the perfect plans into actions and to get some of the tangible outcomes that can really make a real difference on side in the design review in the construction decision making I think that's how we need to shift the focus now the.

Yatong

I kind of understand why we have this kind. Of the challenge. Because the first key thing is that the cost and people still, you know, talk like, complain too much about the high cost of the softwares, the modelling and also we have some of the constraints from the project side.

Yatong

So and it's not an easy process, I would say, but I can see the whole industry is kind of slowly slowly progressing, still promising, yes.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah. And it's it's nice because if you think about any transformation and if you think about, if you compare, if you align that with our life span maybe 10 years could feel like a long time for us because our life, lots of things happen in our life in 10 years.

Andrea Ciaffi

But in the big picture of the construction industry and the history of construction like 10 years, 20 S, 50 years are like nothing if you compare with what happened in the past from back in the days, the Egyptians, the Roman Empire, the ancient Greece.

Andrea Ciaffi

The structures we have in Asia, in China. Like. We have seen we are experiencing exchange that is a lot faster than all of the changes we have ever experienced before. And that of course, clear creates challenges.

Yatong

He didn't say it.

Andrea Ciaffi

So one of the things you just mentioned is the improved communication I've said, yes, this is creating a new language, a new way to communicate each. I think there is an important role here for something we call openbeam because for the construction industry and and how does this differ from traditional being workflow so?

Andrea Ciaffi

Ohh from your point of view, what do you mean with? Open beam and. And others. This benefit the construction companies at the moment.

Yatong

Um, yes, this is kind of my favourite topic outside.

Andrea Ciaffi

Alright, barge.

Yatong

It's not over English, yes. But I understand this open beam term probably is not very familiar for everyone, even if you are like working in that industry. But I would like. To probably use the example of open source. I guess it's probably been a little bit more popular because you know, with this AI becomes more popular.

Yatong

Probably everyone is talking about. The open AI, the open source, so it's all open. I guess the open for me. Is, um, you know. It allows everyone to access to the content. It doesn't matter if it's free or not free, but it's just give you.

Yatong

The access and more flexibility. 00:20:02 Yeah. So I think open Bing, kind of. Followed the same spirit. So it's open standard and is is to facilitate the collaboration and data exchange between the different format. So let's probably think about ohh the tradition of being versus the.

Yatong

The open beam. So the traditional beam is. It's normally the kind of tied to a specific software ecosystem like now in the market. You know we have the Autodesk, we have the batteries software, but the problem is. This this kind of the big vendors their file format, they can't really talk with each other directly.

Yatong

So this caused the. Compatibility issues for everyone, but open Bing on the other hand, they used the open format like I've, CC and BCC.

Andrea Ciaffi

Hmm yeah.

Yatong

So the open format means that different tools, different vendors, they can exchange the batter. Lovely. Please are losing any of the critical information, so this is kind of the key difference between the traditional beam and the open beam. Um, I guess. It's very it will be very useful for.

Yatong

The large scale project where. We have multiple discipline involved. Is it for example in the on? See for my project in the M1 project is a large new projects so it we have so many different displays but for the civil engineering you know in.

Yatong

Especially in Australia and market, we basically use 12:30 is a very dominated software but in the structure industry they normally use Revit or like auto 3D AutoCAD.

Yatong

So that's kind of the different file format will cost lots of the issues and the way to resolve this kind of issue is to, you know have a common data standard which is icy which dives it like I guess we will talk about icy more later on.

Yatong

But this kind of the common. A data format is a perfect thing to help us in reduce some of the conversion issues and have the better communications. And we want lots of won't miss. Any data and we don't need to do it. Extra works to do the.

Yatong

Moderation and this kind of things. Ohh and I guess how does it benefit to the construction company is again, it helps us to streamline the process. It doesn't matter if we are doing the model variation or if we want to kind of do some of the data extraction.

Yatong

We can use this kind of open format to facilitate this streamlined process.

Andrea Ciaffi

No, very good point. And it's been interesting to see the evolution of this platforms and digital tools that have been developed. Kind of independently. So different companies developing their own things trying to resolve problems of their own industry, and they have all created something that like products that are slightly different but can still be integrated under this IFC umbrella.

Andrea Ciaffi

So I think the results of this segmentation is due to how these companies have evolved and developed their software to meet the man. 00:23:42 Cat. And then once you have developed over these products, we now have a bigger problem, which is how do we stitch everything together and we allow everything we allow all these platform to speak with each other.

Andrea Ciaffi

00:23:49 Yes, exactly. So now we have a new problem, and as you mentioned, this problem can be solved in a way with I I FC models and one way for me to explain what are U FC models are they like to simplify? By that to speak to people I don't know anything about it and maybe don't want the longest explanation.

Andrea Ciaffi

As always been, think about lives. See like the PDFs of of the models, because it's just something you extract and you can read it from anywhere but from your point. Of view. What are these IFC files and now they can improve collaboration and beam.

Yatong

Yes. Um yeah, another my favourite topic. Ohh. So I guess for IC. It's it's not really a. A file I think is a file format. So normally I want like to use the example of the universal adapters to describe the ice files. You know, for me, like, I travel a lot.

Yatong

So every time when I go to the different countries, I guess everyone has the same problem. You know the different. Countries have the different the power athlete standard. So this means that the device I can use in Australia, they won't fit in the one in Europe or in the US or in any other Asian countries.

Yatong

It's all different. So to solve this problem, what we can do, we can either to bring you know multiple different adapters or we need to bring lots of the charges which is very frustrating process fahid this. And I guess. That is, something happens in the beam.

Yatong

World as well, right? Because the different vendors, the different teams are using different softwares. So if we don't have any common format. So this means the different files from the different discipline teams. They won't be able to plug in with each other smoothly, but this is the compatibility issues we we we just mentioned.

Yatong

So this means you know, either miss some of the data, or we need some. Of the extra work to convert. The file format to be able to match each. Other and I guess that's where the ICC comes in. So by using this IFC file format, no matter what software you are using, so I see kind of make sure the data transfer and exchange correctly.

Yatong

So you can keep everything consistent and reduce the errors you know makes everyone's life. Easier. Much easier. 00:26:25 Yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

Makes total sense and this open beam is great, but we also have problems and challenges. And what do you thinks are the limitation of the challenges for open Bing at the moment?

Yatong

Um. I guess yes, it has lots of the benefits say you know its streamlined the process it allow us to do many of the like fancy stuff. But the biggest challenge is website is that the man side mindset, yes. Um, so even for some of the people who are working in the industry, I don't think.

Yatong

But many of them, they see the benefit and importance of this opening viewing format like the IFC file format. I kind of can understand that. Say for example, when the people, our modellers who have been working in the building sector for like over 10 years, 20 years.

Yatong

They probably can. They got used to use the rabbit like for this kind of the single software, could they say ohh everything can. Be done in Revit. Why do I need the? I see file format right? It's just a fifth more trouble for me.

Yatong

Why do I want to ask for than import ICS? Um, but I guess the The thing is is benefits more broader team, not only the the modellers, the drafters, but for the project engineers, project managers, and also even our client government. So that's where it facilitates the collaboration and coordination.

Yatong

Ohh, and another challenge I've say is the software limitation honey because at the moment I I can see many of the authoring software they probably wont be able to fully support the IC Expo that is compliant with the building smart standard. I think that improving.

Yatong

Changing but steering, you know, you got some of the minor issues from this kind of the IFC file exported from the authoring software, UM. So yeah, that's probably will cause some other like compact compatibility. Issues as well.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, not to the degree and. I want to change gear and talk about something that I know you are a guru like you are a Python guru and I would like to have a chat with you about that.

Andrea Ciaffi

And because many people may be familiar with Python, Python is a programming language, but I would like to know, from your point of view I'll Python can be used to automate and optimise construction processes can share this with us.

Yatong

Yes, uh yeah, there are many like. All of my favourites topics. So Python I guess I learned Python when I was doing my PhD. I have to say so very it's kind of easy to learn and easy to read programming language. We can do lots of the things, so it's very popular used in the deep learning machine learning industry.

Yatong

Ohh, but in the construction industry I guess. The most most powerful thing I can think of is to streamline the process of everything. For example, in the world we are using and by the 3D models, there are lots of the rich data inside the model, right?

Yatong

So we want to make export those datas and try to, you know either validate this data or use some of the data to. Create our dashboard. And the whole process, we want them to the more efficient and how we can achieve this is to use Python this language or.

Yatong

I don't really want. To limit the programming language you know, because there are so many other programming language, they can do the same thing. But as I said, type things quite. You know, it's very easy to use. I think easy to learn as well, so I'm a very big Python fan and I think that's from the model perspective.

Yatong

But again, for the construction team side, I guess there are so many you know to documentations and reports thing to do everyday even. The simple task like upload and import file merged file combined the Excel spreadsheet. This kind of the things the documenting in the repetitive admin works, they all can be streamlined by using Python.

Yatong

This very, you know magic tool. Yes. So I guess the key key idea of the key spirit is to try to reduce the workload for our.

Yatong

Ohh project team and try to allow our engineers and all the construction team on everyone working on the project to focus on the Q and also I really highly recommend everyone to look look for some of their other programming language as well.

Yatong

The easiest one probably you know, there are many visual programming language or the local quote or low code platform that can do the same thing like I know in the if you are working on the conservative side, you have them. They use Dynamo in Revit and Grasshopper.

Yatong

These are all very. Great tools which can do lots. Of them on. And efficient workflow and help with the daily task. And there is another one which is called FME which is more widely used in the spatial energy industry and that can automate lots of the workflow as well.

Yatong

But yeah, just don't always probably limit in the pipe and this single language. There are more things available on the market and is also like some of them, they dont really need too much programming skills. You know you don't. Really need to. Rewrite the code, you just drag some tools box and then you can do.

Yatong

Anything.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, definitely. And I remember, like many years ago when I started learning programming languages to improve construction workflow. If at some point if felt like magic, the ability of doing so many things. With a click. Uh, that was my. That was my dream.

Andrea Ciaffi

My dream was to be able to design something with one click, one click button that design everything for. Me that was. That was the goal. I had in mind and the Python was one of the first things I started learning because as you said, it's relatively easy to learn and when you said that, I was thinking that probably the audience would be split in two parts.

Andrea Ciaffi

Some people will listen to that and say, OK, it's easy. I will get started and some of them will be like, yet it bothers hard. So yes, I think I think it it, it is easy. In the context of learning programming languages. But if you start and I encourage everybody to Start learning programming languages.

Andrea Ciaffi

Don't give up at the beginning because it could feel overwhelming and and disarming at the beginning, but continue and at some point will feel like second nature and you will just write Python code like you write English or whatever is your first language.

Yatong

Yeah, they cracked me. Yeah, exactly. Yes, everything that we can start from some like the local platform, you know like Dynamo rfme that's more easy to learn, yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, that's true. And yeah, a good a good way to start degree would be part of Dynamo grasshopper where you can start with these blocks that then are connected to each other. At least you start understanding what is the logical flow of programming and then as you evolve you you find that certain blocks of Dynamo and Grasshopper don't exactly do what you want to achieve.

Andrea Ciaffi

And this is where you starting to. 00:34:27 Yeah, he's crazy. Using your your Python scripts to achieve more specific goal that will help you get your job done in a faster way. 00:34:31 Yes.

Andrea Ciaffi

So it's a process and it could be very rewarding when you when you Start learning how to use these things, but you have experience structural engineering side and can you share with us some practical use cases or example of how we get our you've used Python in being from structure point of view or in real life?

Yatong

Yes, sure. Ohh yes I guess. Uh, one thing I want to like. Talk about is. Uh, you know, piping is a programming language, right? But then the best thing, as we mentioned before, we have the open Bing which is open file format.

Yatong

So if we combine this kind of the two things together, I think that's where the magic happens.

Andrea Ciaffi

Hmm.

Yatong

So the best thing, the best use case at the moment like what I did. Is for the data extraction I guess because say for many of them I models we have available on the project. There are so so many data inside the models.

Yatong

So from the construction point of view, many of them they would like to get the quantities from the data by. There are multiple ways to do that. If you don't, you don't have to use Python, but the book beauty of the Python is it can give you the result very quick, probably just in second.

Yatong

So you can get the food result of the, you know multiple by saying 10 or 20 different out from the model. So that's like has changed the whole process a lot and it saves, I don't know how much time it can save, but it saves really like a lot of them.

Yatong

Ohh and for the structural engineer I. Guess. It also has so many use cases that banning the easiest thing is you know we do the design, the structural design. I know I'm doing stress analysis right, so by using Python it's also very easy to get the stress analysis result.

Yatong

So you just need to populate your formulas and then your input and the close button. You get the result. Has a very. Beautiful thing and it saves lots of time. And then you know. You can. Do a lot of. The different parameters in the change, lots of different parameters as well.

Yatong

You can do this the the sense they call this sensitive analysis as well. So lots of different things can do by using Python.

Andrea Ciaffi

You're not very good. Very good point. And when I think about that, that extraction then makes me think that the the industry has evolved creating these models and massively models are just lots and lots of lots of data that humans cannot understand at dilans anymore because there is so much going on previously.

Andrea Ciaffi

Was it a big, gigantic piece of paper size 880? Whatever it is you look at it, you started it long enough. You understand what's going on now with this digital models, there is a lot more. So and this creates the need of adding digital approaches of how you actually analyse the data could be the usage of AI.

Andrea Ciaffi

It could be Python, but there needs to be a better way to understand the data that lives inside this black magic box black box that is a is a bean. 00:38:21 What's the?

Andrea Ciaffi

Alright, so it's very important to do that and from the other point of view, the other the the improvements that programming languages like pattern can bring to the design stage where you can start thinking about more complex calculations that you can do. I know we are all familiar with Excel.

Andrea Ciaffi

Excel is great and it's probably like the. The most two saw them. If it's probably the most. Just user interface for engineers Father.

Yatong

Yes, exactly.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, Python doesn't give you a user interface. Um out of the box like Excel does, but the power that there is behind programming languages like pattern is that you can customise your calculations the way you want and it could be super powerful. 00:39:03 Yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

So yeah, that's very interesting. Now let's think about the future now the future is unknowable. Nobody can predict that, unless if you can please just want some numbers. But other than that, let's think about the future of the this year, engineering. Industry and.

Andrea Ciaffi

Our. It could change in the next decade. Then from your point of view, what are new technologies that will transform digital engineering in the next, let's say, 5 to 10 years?

Yatong

Yeah, I guess there are lots of them. And the most popular one. I guess everyone's talking about the AI, so there are lots of potentials by using AI, even in the construction and civil engineering. Ohh at the moment I don't think we see too much use case yet.

Yatong

But I I think in the future, you know, once we got high quality of the data then will definitely be many of the AI driven decision making things happened. So that's, that's the biggest thing.

Yatong

And the last thing I would say is AR, the augmented reality, I realise this feature and I think we have some of the team are using this kind of the feature on site already. So it's pretty much what you can do for the construction team is they can compare, they can overlay the real model, the real digital model.

Yatong

To the real world by you. They want to see, you know, waste this bridge and they want to compare the the the construction process with the digital bridge models. We can see that by using AR, which is a very, very powerful tool, I think.

Andrea Ciaffi

It's incredible how we take for granted certain technologies that where probably impossible to imagine many years ago and now. Just go with the tablet on a construction site and we can overlay reality and and beautiful on on on a device. It's incredible that has evolved then.

Andrea Ciaffi

00:41:12 Yeah.

Yatong

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think I really. Like the the overlay features, you know like before we talk about the 2D, the 2D running overlay in the 3D model. But that's kind. Of still in the design in the digital 3D model, this space. But then now you know when it comes to the construction to overlay the.

Yatong

This the models with the real construction progress. 00:41:36 Hmm. There's another layer add on. To the 2D3D and then the real world progress. Yeah, definitely.

Andrea Ciaffi

And we know that one of the challenges of the digital transformation is the adoption. So it's it's very hard for companies to evolve and adjust and adopt new technologies because as you said has been a fast transformation and it's still happening. So. What do you think?

Andrea Ciaffi

Like what can construction companies go to stay ahead of the? Adoption at the moment.

Yatong

Yeah. I think the first one is. To have a good culture. The culture which I think for me the spirit is to keep curious, keep learning and keep sharing.

Yatong

So if everyone can kind of do follow this kind of spirit, I guess it definitely will do some of the big the benefit for the construction company in the long run run and also I guess for the construction of own companies willing to test many of the new digital solutions in the real projects.

Yatong

As I said, the the cost probably be the first challenge at the beginning, but once we test them, do we know what they can do? Then we can you. Know make a change.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, definitely. And from the open beam point of view, what's the next big breakthrough urban being? And I in construction U predict. Could could rule open?

Yatong

Sometimes yes. Sometimes I was. Thinking um open Bing. You know, like in the in the civil engineering of the construction industry, the daughter for my understanding is not really a structural data, right. So we have the drawings, we have reports, you know, we have the models, but how can we convert this kind of unstructured data to a structured data which fitted the machine?

Yatong

They can be readable for them. That's the biggest challenge and. Open Bing, the opening file format I guess is probably a solution, so this means you know once we got the different umm models in the open data format I think. There must be.

Yatong

A potential that we can use this kind of instructor diver to train. Our deep learning models and after that you know. We can kind of really. I love that AI potentials. We probably can either do some.

Yatong

I predictive design optimizations know by using AI to analyse the past projects and to understand to ask them that like what we do for change GPT to just ask some questions to suggest cost effective and sustainable way to have a design efficient solutions.

Yatong

I think that's how we catch you.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, that would be incredible. I'm. I'm waiting for the moment to open shop.

Yatong

He has to me today.

Andrea Ciaffi

It would be fantastic. Yeah. Yeah, but thank you very much. Yorang for today's ohh chat I think I'm glad a lot. I think audience has laden lot. We are at the end of our episodes, but before we go, if people want to reach out to you when they can, what what can, what can we find you?

Yatong

Saying yes um the easy way will be LinkedIn if you just search my name you will find me. And also I have a personal website that you can find from the LinkedIn as well. And yeah, if you want to have a chat or like discuss more topics, just send me the message.

Yatong

I'll reply. Yep. Welcome to any of the comments.