Road Design and BIM with Matthew Jedniuk

Andrea Ciaffi

Hi Matthew. Welcome to the Digital Construction podcast. How are you today?

Matthew Jedniuk

Yeah, not too bad. Thanks yourself.

Andrea Ciaffi

Very good, very good. Thank you. It's great to have you here today. So today we have Matthew Jednik. He is the digital delivery lead for transport at GHD. But it's worth in all of the main companies. So it is worth for WSP, Mark, McDonald's, Mac egg on like a very long and fantastic career is is so much knowledge in this space.

Andrea Ciaffi

And today we are going to talk about how do we design roads. And beams. And how do we manage teams and projects? So I think it's it's a it's a good opportunity. A lot for anyone that works in beam, particularly in infrastructure side, but I think many of the lessons we'll learn today will be applicable for everybody that works in the digital space.

Andrea Ciaffi

But before we start, Matthew, I have an asburger for you. What's the best piece of advice you have ever received in your career?

Matthew Jedniuk

Best piece of advice? To be fair, and I, I actually still use this with with some of the junior staff that I work with even today. Is that there? There's no such thing as a. As a stupid question.

Matthew Jedniuk

If you don't know the answer, then it's not stupid to you, so it's it's something that, yeah, I still repeat many times that the only way you're gonna find something out is by asking that question.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, that's that's a very good one. Yeah, I agree. It's a classic bite. So it it's a, it's an Evergreen.

Matthew Jedniuk

Yep.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit about your career journey and what led you to work into the digital space for the construction industry?

Matthew Jedniuk

Yeah, sure. So I I started off as a as a drafter, so I'd start off for my apprenticeship at at Acom or Wartsall back in the day. But it's acom now. And I did that for, you know, about 10 years as a, as a draughtsman, until I I got the opportunity sort of knocked on the door to to move into design.

Matthew Jedniuk

So then I moved into to Rd design. And then from there obviously working with all the the different disciplines. No, you you do that in the drafting space. In design you you sort of get a bit of a bit more of appreciation of what Canon and could possibly go wrong if you don't communicate and coordinate properly.

Matthew Jedniuk

And that's sort of led me down the path of sort of being the new word at the time. This is quite a long time ago now, but yeah, getting into the digital engineering space was just was really just about that was I saw an an issue.

Matthew Jedniuk

That I could get involved with and and to help coordinate design models, et cetera. And yeah, that sort of led to being a dear coordinator. I got got an oortunity again. I think I was on the the Sydney metro job when I was at at Motts to get into to the digital coordination and I quite enjoyed myself.

Matthew Jedniuk

And then from that moment on I I pursued that as a career from a coordinator on some of the some of the major projects like the paramilitary L stage stage one got the opportunity to get into the coordination and then. Eventually, the opportunity to get into the as Ade lead from the small jobs and now running some some major projects in Sydney.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, that's good. And certainly you have a lot of experience in this space and and we know we work on many projects and it feels like sometimes there are similarities between projects, but every single project it's different. And I think the requirements, the different requirements for the different projects can really affect the way we work.

Andrea Ciaffi

So from your point of view, how do projects requirements can impact BIM workflows when you design roads?

Matthew Jedniuk

Yep, Yep. Yeah. You know, it's when it comes to to Rd design, like getting the project requirements right. At the start is pretty much everything. It's. It can really lay the foundation to deliver a very good project, or it could then come crashing down.

Matthew Jedniuk

Everything that follows lies and everything sort of starts to to wobble if you don't. And in our world, that means understanding the specs, the regulations. Who's using the road, what the stakeholders expect, and even things like environmental conditions and and future expansion. So understanding.

Matthew Jedniuk

I guess the the major I guess impacts that could happen at the very start of the project. Really is where BIM really kicks off in in a Rd space. But in saying that, this is also where it starts to get gets interesting. In all of those requirements and and.

Matthew Jedniuk

How they shape the the digital workflows and and it is quite easy when it from NSW point of view and and working a lot we've transported NSW requirements. They have a lot of that, I guess sort of set in stone now with the different frameworks that are coming through.

Matthew Jedniuk

It'd be a different story if, yeah, if you were down in, say, one of the other states, which they're still in their sort of infancy stage when it comes to to digital requirements. But really it's it's the it's what the client eventually wants.

Matthew Jedniuk

It's it's their asset. Dial that needs to be handed over in what format it needs to be in what requirements are there is ISO 9650. We baked that into our our BIM execution plan from day one in terms of getting that set up.

Matthew Jedniuk

What data capture how we structure our models? All of that comes back into how we then set up our our CDE to then produce that project and to work through that project. So yeah, if we if we don't have clear requirements. That's when things can get get very messy and we can end U redoing work chasing information, yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, definitely. And it could fit probably overwhelming for people that are new into this space to think about all of the different things you need to collect before you actually start.

Andrea Ciaffi

But if you could narrow this down and think about at that list, so it's at least stage, what are the most critical considerations for the infrastructure project that you need to do when you think about requirements at that stage?

Matthew Jedniuk

Yep, Yep. So early stage consideration as considerations. I'd say first now down the project information requirements and make sure everyone's on the same page. Then think about the level of detail, the level of information needed at each stage. Because not everything needs to be modelled at 100% from day one, it is a. It is a sometimes slow crawl to get to that 100 percent, 100% model.

Matthew Jedniuk

But it's, yeah, it's, it's that's probably the key part is don't expect that you're going to have 100% everything modelled. And also don't forget about the coordination, especially in infrastructure. Roads are are really standalone. They they interact with utilities, structures, drainage and more.

Matthew Jedniuk

So how you plan, model, federation and the version control early can make or break the workflow down the line. So in the day to clear of the brief, the smoother the BIM delivery is going to be.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, I really like the the point you made around the making.

Andrea Ciaffi

Sure you don't model 100% because sometimes sometimes there is even like it's a very difficult balancing act act where you try to because you want to deliver a good project and sometimes you feel like you didn't have enough details and especially if you are renewed into this space, you feel like you're nodding enough details, you're not doing your job properly, but it's really an art to make sure.

Andrea Ciaffi

That you deliver the right amount of information at the right time that meets the the contract as well, so that's not an easy one.

Matthew Jedniuk

Yeah, 100% and it it does come back to also what think about what you're delivering to like the in, in infrastructure and and transport really any any project there's different stages like you have a reference design, you could have a concept design, you could have a detailed design, it could be ad and C. Going gun HO and trying to model everything from a get go.

Matthew Jedniuk

It just means you're going to have to redo it many, many times because you lock down an alignment first.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah.

Matthew Jedniuk

Get get an understanding of where things are going to sit before you you start implementing all of your, I guess BIM aspects onto a model.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, definitely another key aspects when you, especially when you work on large project set is that you end up splitting models. So you you can split models for different reason like contractors or the size of the file et cetera. But how do you decide how to structure and split and beam model when it comes down to Rd projects?

Matthew Jedniuk

Yeah. So when it when it comes to the big Rd projects, you're never dealing with just one model, you're dealing with a network of models that that need work, that do need to work together. It's it's almost like a has the best way to say.

Matthew Jedniuk

It's almost like a real rehearsed band. Going together, it's you can't cram everything into a single file. It's. You do need to break it down so it it will just become a nightmare. And in reality, especially nowadays with the different software that's being used.

Matthew Jedniuk

It's probably gonna crash. There's the there's just so much that needs to go into those models now. So I guess the the first thing that I guess to look at is how the project is going to be broken down physically. Like by chainage or bisection or by precinct.

Matthew Jedniuk

How it's going to be delivered contractually as well, it could be broken down into, into stages. It could. Can't think of the word. It'll come to me. But.

Andrea Ciaffi

Is this?

Matthew Jedniuk

It could be a staggered delivery, so you may not deliver every single discipline in one go. So you you do need to break it down into into the disciplines themselves. That gives us like a natural way to split the models. Even from a row design, so if you're just looking at the row design and you had 30 kilometres of Hwy, let's say OK, maybe not 30.

Matthew Jedniuk

Let's just say it's 5 kilometres. You think about even breaking it down into one kilometre sections, so you don't just have one designer working on it. You could have 5 designers working on it. This will then help the process of of getting. Getting the project actually delivered on time.

Matthew Jedniuk

There may be major intersections that have more detail and need multiple people to work on compared to if it's just a straight straight Rd. In so Hume Hwy. Middle of middle of sort of. NSW running down it's it's pretty straight alignment so it's a lot easier.

Matthew Jedniuk

You can sort of project that information across depending on the software itself so. And then the other key aspect aspect of it. Is construction side. They will build it in certain ways as well and they will want that information to be delivered. I guess in that in that area of works because they may have to shut down a road in that area or vice versa.

Matthew Jedniuk

So. So it's not just about geography. When we when we split the split by disciplines you, you also have to have in consideration about the the roads, the drainage. Structures, utilities, maybe even landscape or electrical as separate models, which we do that's that's transports way of doing it.

Matthew Jedniuk

They have multiple disciplines. So you have, yeah, I guess a parent child relationship, you have your your disciplines and your sub discipline codes. Do I get yourself back on track, though? Yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, there is some. There is so much going. Yeah. There are so many ways to to split the models and it's really like an art by itself. Like to find the right balance to make sure that you orchestrate everything in the right way.

Andrea Ciaffi

So yeah, even like producing a list is not. It's not that straightforward.

Matthew Jedniuk

Yeah, hundred 100% and it's just it's also the way each team can work in their own space without tripping over each other. Then when it comes to the actual federating the model, those models all come together like in a coordinated model like. Usually in something like the navisworks or or some sort of CDA viewing tool which is like I tweet et cetera.

Matthew Jedniuk

But I guess the the key part is that it it's consistency throughout. If you don't have a soldered like model naming convention or or a shared coordinate system.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah.

Matthew Jedniuk

Agreed. I guess levels of detail. It it does fall apart, you could have all these different separated models, but if they're not all going in the same direction, they also don't work. So you do need to also think about that as well. And it's not just the one piece of software that we use.

Matthew Jedniuk

You'll have multiple softwares that also. From a geolocation point of view, work in different ways, or take take Revit and.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah.

Matthew Jedniuk

Open roads or civil 3D or 12D. They don't talk to each other directly. There's always either some sort of. Control that you need to have before you can export something out or incorporate something.

Andrea Ciaffi

It's a bit challenging. I was wondering, like even from the coordination point of view, when you have the different disciplines you need to coordinate and you need to have different files. So how do you how do you manage the coordination part between the Supreme 20 of multiple files?

Matthew Jedniuk

Well, again, it does go back to the the consistency side of it. Generally speaking, it's they all have different sort of file types, but generally generally trying to use an open source and that's actually again transferred to yourself. Well as if as pushed that using the the types of like IFC files.

Matthew Jedniuk

That would then go into a navisworks or some sort of Federated model tool. Also helps, because it then gets incorporated the same way. It's just makes our guess our lives just that that little bit easier on that front, but it's that's not taking away that you can bring them in directly from different file types.

Matthew Jedniuk

But generally speaking you're you know as in Industry Foundation classification, which is what I see stands for, I believe I always get the C part wrong.

Andrea Ciaffi

Mm hmm. To Google it.

Matthew Jedniuk

I always call it class, but it's it's. It's something along those lines, but yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

And I wonder, like we are talking about like large projects, complex project, but maybe sometimes there are situations where the project is small enough that you can put everything into one single model. Have you ever seen situations like that where everything is leaves inside one model?

Andrea Ciaffi

And how do you manage the different disciplines within one single model if you if you ever do?

Matthew Jedniuk

Yeah, to be fair, it's been a long time since I've seen everything just done in in a single single model. Generally speaking, it's just something that just isn't done 'cause usually like I'm I'm I'm only speaking from from my own, obviously own personal experience is that.

Matthew Jedniuk

Not every, I guess design or engineer is a is a guru in in every single discipline, I'd say I'd say that's probably a very. True again, think of the word that. It doesn't happen very often that you would have a single person that has enough knowledge to be able to do all in one.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah.

Matthew Jedniuk

So it's it's really getting the right people doing the right work in the right space and then bringing it together really makes for a a guess a a good outcome for the project.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, definitely. And now you'd actually, you touched about this point about people thinking about the challenges that we have when we need to manage beam teams, particularly on large projects. So what are the key challenges from your point of view when it's about managing beam teams on on these projects?

Matthew Jedniuk

Yeah. So when you're running a, when you're running anything BIM related on a large Rd project. It's not about just pushing Bunning buttons in software. It's about keeping a a bunch of different people from different teams, often in different locations, especially nowadays all moving in the same direction.

Matthew Jedniuk

And it it really is. No, no small feat. One of the biggest challenges is is getting everybody on the same page early. Designers, engineers, contractors. We'll have different priorities. The designers are focused on geometry and and design intent, while contractors are thinking about constructibility quantities.

Matthew Jedniuk

And sequencing so a big part of my my role is is translating those needs into a a BIM workflow and and how that works for everybody. The other one is. Is it clear you've got to have a clear? Clear roles and responsibilities from the start.

Matthew Jedniuk

Where's modelling? Who's modelling what? What are they modelling? Who's reviewing it? Who owns? Which piece of data and when handover happens? If it's still fuzzy, things will slip through the cracks. Having a solid beam execution plan. That's really that's actually used that that's the key part.

Matthew Jedniuk

I would say you there's so many documents that I see that are hundreds of pages of hundreds of pages long, and I can probably count on one hand. Who's actually read it?

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, it happens all the time. Yeah. Yeah. This this. Yeah. These documents are tricky because it's it's a counter buzzer. You commit that you will do something and then few months later, you realise that you agreed that you do something. It's it's it's too hard.

Matthew Jedniuk

And that and that's really the the key part is as much as like by all means and this is coming from a daily the, the, the DXP or or or BP or whatever you want to call it outside of NSW. The DXP really is.

Matthew Jedniuk

It's to bring, I guess, when someone questions why they need to do it and what they need to do is to bring them back all in line and say, look, this is what's we're doing as a project as a whole and getting everybody I guess to agree to it.

Matthew Jedniuk

They may not read the document, but you can then point them to the sections that they need to really understand or. Or be involved in.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, definitely. And do you use any specific collaboration tools to keep all of these people aligned?

Matthew Jedniuk

Yeah. So it it does come back to the the CDA itself. So we do lean heavily. Yeah, on those cdes and it could be your BIM 360, which is ACC now. You've got 12 D synergy and project wise itself.

Matthew Jedniuk

Generally speaking, from transport I use a lot of project wise itself and I know from GHD when in the water space we use a lot of of ACC because that's where a lot of the software itself is very Autodesk based design so.

Matthew Jedniuk

That is, I guess, where the the key documents sit, but when to bring everybody together, it's the likes of navisworks, revisto BIM collab to actually, I guess, then see that Federated model to the issue, like for the tracking of the issues and the coordination side of it, allowing people to see everybody else's work without having to actually have that software installed on their machine as well.

Andrea Ciaffi

We take it for granted that now, but these collaboration tools are really have really changed the way the industry operates. I can't imagine like how we could possibly deliver these projects without these tools. At the moment it would be a nightmare.

Matthew Jedniuk

Yeah, 100%. And even in those, even those softwares they they can then branch off into their own, their own discipline. So we've we've got administrators that just look after those systems because they can get. More and more complex as well.

Matthew Jedniuk

Especially when it comes to compliance like again, I'll, I'll use transport as an as an example it we pretty much all projects now have to be compliant with ISO 9:00 and 6:50.

Matthew Jedniuk

It needs to be printed, standardised throughout and it does help, I guess the entire team that when they go to one project to the next it's consistent we we have the same approach whether it be a small project or a big projects it's they've got a similar.

Matthew Jedniuk

I think the word similar not platform, but set out in inside of those softwares as well because that can be it can be a whole learning curve by itself even though it's been around for a while.

Matthew Jedniuk

I I know I've been using it since 2012 project wise every project I go to it's the same question how do I use it so you're you're redoing the training again and again so it is it is a little bit daunting sometimes but yeah having that.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew Jedniuk

That DXP that standardisation makes it makes it easier for everybody.

Andrea Ciaffi

Thinking about the delivery of the projects like your, your experience is in, in, in engineering like from the first point of view rather than the the construction side. And one of the things I think it's a big challenge for the construction industry is how to deliver projects in within budget like engineering firms, there are fees and the expectation is are often very high.

Andrea Ciaffi

You need to deliver it to this level of quality. This is the amount of work you need to do, but there is only a certain amount of hours that. Teams can can actually produce before you run out of money, right? So yeah. How do you, from your point of view, how do you manage that?

Andrea Ciaffi

Like you have these big projects, you have a fee. How do you manage that?

Matthew Jedniuk

Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah. So to be fair, this is a big one. No one wants to, to no one's a project that runs late or or blows the budget and, and I guess that's exactly where BIM itself and digital engineering can can make a massive difference if used properly.

Matthew Jedniuk

I I stress, if used properly, because it can also go the complete opposite direction, and it's it's implemented the wrong way. It can also cause those cost blowouts. So I guess one of the the best things that. Does is it help spot roblems early?

Matthew Jedniuk

When they're still, I guess, cheap and easy to fix when it's still in the design phase, we can clash models before anything hits. Site track design changes. In real time, make sure that the the info flowing between disciplines is is clean and and current.

Matthew Jedniuk

That alone cuts down a tonne of rework, and really, it's. Usually both time and that's usually where both time and money disappear. Then obviously it comes to the the scheduling side of it from a, from a construction point of view. Using the the digital engineering and and the BIM models themselves, we can get a better a better grip of what's what's happening.

Matthew Jedniuk

How do we do a 4D simulation? How will will things actually fit in that location to build it in the 1st place, bring in some of the the construction equipment to make sure that yeah, that's that's not going to hit anything or they may be for example.

Matthew Jedniuk

A crane. You may need to think about. Oh, we need to do a a a footing for this crane because it's 100 tonne crane that needs to sit in this location to be able to drop something down a tunnel shaft. So it's it's really.

Matthew Jedniuk

I guess that's that's a key part from a 4D simulation point of view. Like we can, we can think ahead and try and predict what might be needed on site when it gets there. Now, from engineering firm point of view. Are keeping our own fee on track is about being smart with with our effort.

Matthew Jedniuk

The Danger engineering lets us and be models, lets us reuse work. Not all the time because it does depend on what software it comes in. It reference design is done in one and then we have them do detailed design in another doesn't really work because it's it's rework.

Matthew Jedniuk

But it can also be used to do my automate the repetitive tasks, the. Especially with with AI coming on board these days, you got you got lots of smarts like your Dynamo, et cetera. To be able to automate some of these tasks so it's not something they're literally, they're clicking, clicking a button to make something work.

Matthew Jedniuk

But it does all rely on on good planning. If if you over model early or don't set the right expectations with the clients you you can burn through those hours very fast as well.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, definitely. And can you think of the common mistakes that lead to budgets overrun when you deliver beam projects?

Matthew Jedniuk

I guess some of the common mistakes that I see is is over committing to the lad to LE, so the level of of detail and and definition too early. Not having clear sign offs or letting scope creep without calling it out. I guess.

Matthew Jedniuk

Yeah, it's, it's, it's not a big one, but another one is also not align with the contractor assets or asset owner. Early enough as well. If you hand over the models and they can't use it, or they ask for extra data. Late in the game that that's also.

Matthew Jedniuk

I guess a big sort of red flag as well.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah. And for these projects and for the firms, there is also risk related to the usage of these technologies. So we know that there is performance bottlenecks especially in large B models, they they are and the software that we use is very expensive.

Andrea Ciaffi

So you need very good computers. Software is actually also very expensive. The but from your point of view, what are the the the biggest risk related to the usage of beam as a technology? And what happens if you have a too slow or outdated technology can affect the delivery?

Matthew Jedniuk

Yep, Yep. So don't get me wrong. Like we are, we all love. Big models. They look cool in a 3D space, but it can all come crashing down very quickly if you don't have the right tech to keep up with it. I guess one of the biggest risks risks from the BIM workflows for Rd design is is performance based bottlenecks.

Matthew Jedniuk

Road projects can stretch over kilometres, as like previously talked about. Terrain models, utilities, pavements, bridges. If you try and I guess shove all of that into the the one model without a plan, things start lagging. Start crashing, refusing to open. And that that has happened.

Matthew Jedniuk

I've seen it happen. They've had to go back and pretty much rebuild, rebuild some of those models so. It's it's not just about the model, it's about the gear. If someone's running a model with a huge point cloud or a Federated model file on a 5 year old laptop, it's going to crawl.

Matthew Jedniuk

Slow tech equals frustrated users equals mistakes. Plus they also have the. Human nature revert back to something that works, so you can then lose potentially. Years of trying to progress and you could go back to how it usually is done so. The other part is also this.

Matthew Jedniuk

The outdated software is another big one. It's if the team's not in the same version or if someone's using tools that that don't appear as as as support key features like clash detection, data drops, IFC exports, things break it. It creates friction that ends up time and budget again.

Andrea Ciaffi

You're listening. There is always a point where you have to finish your job. It's time to do the end over of the BAM model to the builder or the contractors. So from your point of view, how I should be models be be prepared for an effective handover to the builders.

Matthew Jedniuk

Oh, that's that's a, that's good one.

Andrea Ciaffi

Because they may have their own interpretation of what the model may look like, right? So there is always this tension.

Matthew Jedniuk

Yeah, correct. And and you could have the best BIM model in the world. But if the builder can't use it, it's basically just. It's a piece of artwork on a screen. When I guess when we're prepping a BIM model for handover to the contractor, the main goal is is clarity and usability.

Matthew Jedniuk

That means dripping out the noise, locking in the design and making sure the model reflects what's actually being built. Bills that want a half modelled ideas or design options. Or things that are still in testing. They want confidence that what's in front of them is coordinated and constructible.

Matthew Jedniuk

I guess a good handover model should include, yeah, like you clear model breakdowns so they know where your pavement, your drainage, your structures, et cetera, sit. Verify clash free. Although I hate using the word clash free, but because there's no such thing I haven't seen.

Matthew Jedniuk

AI haven't seen a design. Yet that's clash free by the time you finish it off, there's always going to be issues that need to be resolved on site, but as best we can the the major impacts and it's clearly clearly identified, I don't I guess if anyone else that says listening there don't be afraid that there is clashes but highlight those clashes.

Matthew Jedniuk

Make sure that the construction team knows that they exist, that they're not out on site, I guess. People sitting around on site costs money, and that's where the frustration. Refresh station comes and that's when lawyers start getting involved, especially on DNC. So. Essential metadata as well materials levels, dimensions, et cetera.

Matthew Jedniuk

And probably most importantly, along with the construction sequencing, if you've gone down that that four day route itself.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah. And what are the main challenges that you've seen when you try to to endure the B model to the, to the contractors or the builders, what can possibly go wrong?

Matthew Jedniuk

Plenty. Yep, there's there's plenty.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah.

Matthew Jedniuk

For one, not every contractor is in the same BIM maturity level you do. You just like in the construction or in the engineering industry. There are different tiers. You'll have your tier ones, which generally they actually have their own. They'll have their own digital engineering teams now built inside their systems.

Matthew Jedniuk

But when you start getting in the into the tier twos 2 threes. Production companies, they probably never have heard of it. They're still using your your two DPDFS. So you, you do have to balance high end digital deliveries with practical usability.

Matthew Jedniuk

There's then there's issues of multiple contractors, especially on the big roads projects you you may have Jvs from a construction point of view, not just from a design. So you might have one firm doing the earthworks and another doing the bridge. And potentially another a third using the, doing the utilities, keeping everybody on the same page is definitely a tough one.

Matthew Jedniuk

Generally you will have a lead contractor that will take the reins and then they'll take ownership to I guess support again. I guess the the different tier levels below them. But it's it's. You do need a a clear model federation strategy, a consistent naming convention.

Matthew Jedniuk

Single source of truth like the CDA, very important again usually that that would be if it's ad and C it's a big, big project, the actual contractor would own the CDE, they would be the ones that would be inviting us as the subbies in to do the engineering for them.

Matthew Jedniuk

So it's also working with them at the very beginning to I guess what do we need? But then it's also set up for what they need. As well, so having that that good. Good, I guess. Rapport and relationship at the very get go to to make sure that we get across the line at the very end.

Matthew Jedniuk

Version control. Naming convention it's it's probably one of the key ones. The guys on site, they want to be.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah.

Matthew Jedniuk

Confident that what they have is the correct version, they're not getting something that's months old and we're six iterations down the road. So having that version control. Having also that the access control that people can actually see and edit. Who can view it and who can only?

Matthew Jedniuk

Yeah. Who can actually make changes to it is also very important. Change tracking. So the contractor isn't building off. Yeah, as I said, an old version of that, that file and it's been uploaded to that latest file format as well and it may be that you do have to potentially design in one software.

Matthew Jedniuk

Put her into another. You know it's it's. The different companies or different even areas might be 12 days the way they go from a design perspective. Another region might be Bentley, but end of the day they all still want to potentially a genie O file because they they're going to plug it into the surveyors and go out on sticks and start setting it out.

Matthew Jedniuk

So there is making sure that you are passing the right information across. But I guess yeah, honestly the the best way to make handover work is to is to bring the contractors in early even during design reviews. I know we we do have a lot of Cdrs so.

Matthew Jedniuk

Inside, when we're actually doing our reviews before we'd, we'd finally submit to get their input. That way, they know that what they're getting and they also have the opportunity to adjust models to suit before it goes out for a submission itself.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, definitely. And we are close today to the end of these episodes. Before we go, I wanted to ask you, you've been, you've been working on real world projects and you must have seen so many different challenges and good moment, bad moments. What are some of the biggest lessons you've learned over your career?

Andrea Ciaffi

And if you have any tips for teams that are managing? Them projects.

Matthew Jedniuk

To be fair, I think it's it's trust is probably one of the the the key takeaways from it. There is the I guess there's a there's a few that outside of of of trust, but. I guess. What what it boils down to after I guess after many years.

Matthew Jedniuk

Start with the end in mind. Make sure like it. I know it sounds very, very simple, but it's it's not. It's a hard. It's a hard thing to do to think about what you need to produce at the very end at the very beginning.

Matthew Jedniuk

So it's it's very difficult to do and it's something that to be fair, every project you you will struggle with.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah.

Matthew Jedniuk

It's not something that's just yet snap of a finger. It just happens. You you need to. And this is where it comes back to trust. You need to trust that your team can deliver so you can think about what you need to do at the very end.

Matthew Jedniuk

Keep it as lean as you can. As possible. And keep it clean. Don't overload models with unnecessary details. Focus what's actually needed. At the correct phase of works. They can just balloon so quickly and it's just, yeah, you've you've just got to. Constantly do a little bit of housekeeping.

Matthew Jedniuk

Make sure that yeah, you've got what you need and you can manage it from the start, all the way to the end. And get people talking. Communication is probably the key. The key aspect it's it's been an issue since I very first started from having people sitting right next to you that don't talk or disciplines that don't talk to each other.

Matthew Jedniuk

And to be fair, even with all of. With all of our technology and advances with the likes of teams, which is what we're on now. It still is an issue that people I know. It's not afraid, but I guess they get so stuck into what they're doing.

Matthew Jedniuk

They get tunnel vision and they just want to get their, I guess their design done and they're not communicating changes, potential issues with the person that could be sitting right next to them. Just have that that communication get people talking.

Matthew Jedniuk

That is what really is going to save time and money and keep all of your design managers and project managers happy and get these these projects on budget.

Andrea Ciaffi

OK. Thank you, Matthew. I like how I can see from your comments how your experience emerges and and how you can boil down, boil everything down to something simple that it looks simple, but at the end this is what really matters. So thank you about that.

Andrea Ciaffi

So we are at the end of the episode if people want to reach out to you, where can they find you?

Matthew Jedniuk

Yeah. So I'm. I'm on LinkedIn. Feel free to to reach out to reach out to me on LinkedIn, send me a message. Say hello. I'm I'm quite quite happy to to to help anybody out, feel free to ask questions as well. I'm I'm. I'll answer them in in message and then potentially add add you in on on LinkedIn and we can share either horror stories or or.

Matthew Jedniuk

Oh, hopefully future future projects.

Andrea Ciaffi

Great. Thank you, Matthew. Thank you. That was a great episode. Have a good day.

Matthew Jedniuk

No worries. Thank you very much.