The BIM Handbook in 2025 with Marzia Bolpagni

Andrea Ciaffi

Hi, Marcia. Welcome to the Digital Construction podcast. How are you today?

Marzia Bolpagni

I'm very well. Thank you for the invitation.

Andrea Ciaffi

So today in this episode, we sit down with Marcia Bolpagni. She is the head of Beam International at Maze and author of the Beam End Book with Marcia. We are going to explore the evolution of beam standards and the impact of ISO in 19650.

Andrea Ciaffi

Marcia also led the development of ISO 7817, part one. We will also talk about what's I had for digital construction in the UK and beyond. I'm very excited for this episode, but before we start, Marcia, I have a nice breaker for you. What's the what's the best piece of advice you have ever received in your career?

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah.

Marzia Bolpagni

It's a very good question, hitting one of the best advice that I receive is to pick my bottles because as an engineer such a person that would like to have everything perfect, well organised and so on, and then I learn in my career that he said is important to focus on priorities and to select the bottles.

Marzia Bolpagni

That is worth so that is something that really helped me then to prioritise and to focus on different tasks and situation or something that is important to achieve and let it go instead. What is not so relevant and it's OK that is not perfect.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, that's very good. It helps with prioritisation. Sometimes we spend so much time working on things that are not necessarily a priority. One of the things that actually is a priority, I think for the beam industry is the concept of LOD. And you're working.

Andrea Ciaffi

You're an engineer, but you also work. Research. You do so many different things, but can you explain the concept of LOD and what's the difference with the level of information need that I've seen you talk about this a lot in your post on LinkedIn.

Marzia Bolpagni

Yeah. Yeah. So back in, I think it was 2015 two 1016, I was doing my PhD. So I was doing research and one of the topic was clients requirements, how clients can explain what they would like to achieve from the building information model process.

Marzia Bolpagni

And the LOD came very often and I started to investigate these and I found that there are so many different variety of this concept. Some people call it level of detail level of development grade level of information. I create a blog post that is called the main.

Marzia Bolpagni

Phases of melody in 2016 that go went viral really because I explained that there is no just one definition but different organisation and different institution and different countries. They have been defined this concept in a different way, but basically coming back to your question, what it is.

Marzia Bolpagni

So it is a way to explain how much, let's say detail graphical detail. We would like to include in our 3D models. OK, so how much complex is the geometry following the progression of our? Project and beside the geometrical aspect, the Lodi topics also has been introducing the concept of level of information.

Marzia Bolpagni

So which attributes should be attached and should be link? Let's say we did the geometry, so this is the very basic concept. And the level of information need, as we will talk also today, that is a framework that takes into account not just the geometrical and the phonomerical aspect, but also the documentation, and also before defining what you want to achieve.

Marzia Bolpagni

Ask you to think about the prerequisite. So the purpose why you need the information when you need the information, who needs the information? Because based on different purposes. If you think about energy analysis or structural analysis in the same phase, maybe the geometry looks a little bit different the attributes.

Marzia Bolpagni

Are different and so on. So it's really thinking windy end in mind, so this is the let's say what is behind the the level of information need and I'm happy to expand later as well.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, and a very good point. And what do you think? How can from your point of view teams deliver projects with the right Lod from your point of view?

Marzia Bolpagni

Yeah. So I think that one of the, let's say main problem is that project the delivery teams, they don't receive a good brief. So they, they they don't receive from a client or from maybe let's think about if he's a subcontractor from the lead designer or the lead contractor.

Marzia Bolpagni

So they don't receive a clear information and indication of what they need to produce and how. So that is a is a first of all is a gap and one of the main issue is that they just think about. Their purpose, their own, let's say goals, and they don't think about the project goal and what is the client goal or the end user goal.

Marzia Bolpagni

So we end up having for example model created during the design, they're not fit for purpose for construction. So what is happening when the construction start? You need to start again. From the beginning and that is a little bit of waste of time and money and so on.

Marzia Bolpagni

The ideal scenario would be to think about different purposes, different scenario 1st and then to be able to then philtre the information based on the different needs and so on. There is still a limitation sometimes with the tools and so on, but. How we did AI and so on.

Marzia Bolpagni

I think that we will more and more going in that direction to have a sort of consistent flow of the information. But my suggestion again coming back to your question, how delivery team can help and my suggestion that start with the end in mind start about which are the project goal what you would like to achieve.

Marzia Bolpagni

And then to define the sort of correct level of information, in this case level of information, need that help you to achieve their project goals.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, that's definitely. That's definitely a good framework and thinking about it, the why I I hear all the time teams that work and sometimes they they they don't channel their energy in the right way and they end up wasting energy and time and resources.

Andrea Ciaffi

So it's good to think about the why and and structure it the same way you did it. One of one of the things I would like to talk about with you is this ISO 7817, part one. We don't often have an opportunity to speak with people that actually.

Andrea Ciaffi

Think about the standards and build the standard and lead the standard like you did, so it's a good opportunity now to speak to you because you led the development of the standards. Can you give us a quick overview of what I saw? 7817 Part One is and why it matters.

Marzia Bolpagni

Yeah. Yeah. So first of all, it is an international standard that has been published in 2024, so last year, but it is based on the European standard. It was published in 2020 because in Europe first there was an interest to standardise this concept because in different countries they were, as I say.

Marzia Bolpagni

Slightly different understanding on application. So in Europe that there was the will to create a common framework and when this standard has been published in 2020, that was at international level. There was also any interest to then adopted us at international level.

Marzia Bolpagni

And so the term level of information, it is not something that I created myself, but actually it is in another standard that is the ISO 19650 that is a standard information management using beam that probably most of you are already familiar and that is the first time that the concept of level of information it has been introduced so in the.

Marzia Bolpagni

19650 and and what is mention in that standard is that the the aim of the level of information need is to avoid to having too much information or too little information because also having too much information as we said. Is not cost effective.

Marzia Bolpagni

Is not good. So when you need to do for example structure analysis, the first thing that you need to do is to clean everything because there is too much information is too complex. I think that's probably some of you you find yourself in this situation and instead the idea of the level of information need is to have.

Marzia Bolpagni

The right information at the right time for the purposes that has been agreed, so that is really about, is having better information that can help to build a better future and to be lean that that is what is behind the level of information.

Marzia Bolpagni

And the standard ISO 7817 Part 1. Yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

It's pretty interesting and I'm very curious to know what was your personal journey in leading the development of this standard, because we never have an insider view of what's going on when people brought the standards. Can you share a little bit with us?

Marzia Bolpagni

Yeah, yeah, I started. I join in 2016. As I mentioned, everything started with my research and Thomas Liebich. I don't know if you the name ring any bell, but he's is considered the father of IFC Industry Foundation classes. So he noticed my. Work and he asked me to join the European Standardisation Committee.

Marzia Bolpagni

As you can imagine, I was very young and I didn't know anything about how to write standard basically, but I was really patient and really interested about this topic. I really wanted to standardise this and so the year after he asked me to.

Marzia Bolpagni

The group, so the first thing for me was as I used to do in research, to do a literature review, to understand what other countries were doing, and that was quite interesting because we found out, for example, that in Luxembourg they had very advanced requirements on the level of information need and.

Marzia Bolpagni

And they they let's say on the Lodi topic that was at that time they introduced not just the geometical part, but they are for numerical as well. And then to do so. So the documentation so because still the document are still an important part of of the process if we like it or not and so.

Marzia Bolpagni

That it was the 1st starting point. So understanding the different application and then we look also for example as JS, what other domain we're doing on this and then we work together bringing best practise from different countries. Is analysing what was working and what instead was not working and is the reason why this concept of purpose came immediately.

Marzia Bolpagni

Say everyone will say OK what is not working with LOD is that is not clear what you want to achieve and why you are asking for the information. So we needed to start. Defining the prerequisite why you need information when you need the information?

Marzia Bolpagni

Who is asking? Because the fire engineer and instead of the the architect or landscape architect in the same point of time might have different requirements. So it's important then to to identify those different personas and and what they need and also which are the objects.

Marzia Bolpagni

That is also quite easy because the concept of LOD was always, let's say, most of the time link or the entire project. So we say the model architectural model LOD 300 OK or components. So the door LOD 300 or the light LOD 100 and so on.

Marzia Bolpagni

And instead in our standard we say that the object really depends on the. Breakdown structure so the object can be the entire asset infrastructure building, but also can be an assembly can be a system. If you think about let's say MEP and so on requirements often are a system level not at object level.

Marzia Bolpagni

No, probably Andre, you know better than myself, but it's important to have this flexibility of assigning requirements at different, let's say, in different parts of the breakdown structure. So that is a little bit. So coming back on how we work. So taking into account best.

Marzia Bolpagni

Working together, experts from different nationalities were bringing their expertise and is really a work of funding compromise is the reason why I was saying at the beginning decide which battles you want to pick because there is something that you need to let it go in order to make sure that the standard is progressing.

Marzia Bolpagni

Thing and you don't need to, you know, always is not that you can win all the battles and you you cannot pretend as a leader that the standard is going in the direction that you always want. You needed to take into account all the different, let's say, point of view and so on.

Marzia Bolpagni

So that is and but but then I'm I'm. Very proud of the result and how the standard now is implemented or so at international level.

Andrea Ciaffi

It's very fascinating to hear the way you think about the standards, because I often speak with people that deliver projects, but you bring a level of obstruction but the same time needs to be very practical.

Marzia Bolpagni

Yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

So it's very interesting how you have to reconcile these two things together. We mentioned that there is a part one that is already available, but Part 2 and part three are coming if I'm if I'm not wrong, what can we expect?

Marzia Bolpagni

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Andrea Ciaffi

What can we expect from this new part of the series that coming?

Marzia Bolpagni

Yeah, Part 2 is a guidance for application. So taking into account a different type of project, different size, different scenario we we are being asked to provide more guidance. So that is something that we are working on and it should be published next next year.

Marzia Bolpagni

And then is the same for part for part three, so Part 3 instead is a is a data schema for software developers to have a schema that enable machine interpretable level of information need. Because another thing that we found out as a gap in the industry is that you define.

Marzia Bolpagni

Your requirements and your LOD requirements in Word in PDF, if you are lucky now, fortunately there are tools such as Planner lead that have a sort of database. OK, but still the majority in the industry, they still use traditional way of the funny requirements.

Marzia Bolpagni

And then you have a very digitalized deliverable of models with scripting and so on. And there is a lack between how we specify requirements and how then we deliver the information. So the idea of Part 3. Is to have a schema that can help them to do quality assurance.

Marzia Bolpagni

To check that what has been required has been done implemented so that is is about part three. So watch this space.

Andrea Ciaffi

That's that's great. Can't wait to hear to see the the new publication. You're also a very busy person, like it was very hard for me to write the introduction and and mention all the things you you work on. And one of the things you do is you are a NIMA ambassador.

Andrea Ciaffi

And can you split? Can you share with us what NIMA is and I can I can help shape the digital build environment.

Marzia Bolpagni

Yeah. So Nima is not-for-profit volunteer LED Virtual organisation that promote information management best practise helping to support the digital transformation across the the built and management environment in the UK and also international and it's. This started in 2016 as UK BIM alliance. Probably some of you heard about that after the mandate in the UK of using building information modelling the year after the UK, UK and Ireland.

Marzia Bolpagni

The chapter of building information of. In 2000 and and the year after, the chapter of Building Smart UK and Ireland join the UK Beam Alliance and in 2019 the UK Beam Alliance created the UK Beam Framework. So a guidance on how to implement the ISO 1950 in in the UK in particular, so is a community of expert that work in order to create material.

Marzia Bolpagni

You can find videos free available guidance on how. To implement information management in your project in a practical way and in 2022 there was a change from UK BIM alliance to Nima that in Greek means trap. And because we realised that it's not just about BIM, but is digital.

Marzia Bolpagni

Transformation is wider. It's about digital twins. It's about AI information management. So that is the reason why now it's called Nima and I suggest you to subscribe to the newsletter. Watch the videos on YouTube. Explore the website we move, all the guidance from PDF to an ibrid database in Malta, so it's also quite nice to navigate.

Marzia Bolpagni

You can also search for information using a sort of AI. Applications. Then you can ask question you. You can create the the database. So yeah is is a very useful source of information that the that the that the moment is available for everyone.

Andrea Ciaffi

That's great. And another resource that you have created is the Beam handbook. Again, you're very busy. You have done so many things and this is another interesting one. Can you share with us what is the Beam handbook that you've wrote and I can help the beam industry?

Marzia Bolpagni

Yeah. So first of all, I'm a co-author of the BIM and book. I'm not the only one together with the raffle, Saxe, gangly and Luciana Bourdi. We have been the author of the 4th edition, so I don't know about you guys, but when I started investigating Bima more than.

Marzia Bolpagni

15 years ago the B Mend book was a reference for me and it was already in the second edition. So now we are on the 4th edition and Chuck Eastman. That is considered the founder of of BIM is the was the main author of of the B Mend book so.

Marzia Bolpagni

With the quick speed over in technology and innovation, there was a need to update the third version to a new version that became the 4th edition and that was really honoured to receive the invite to join the. Author let's say board and what we did is that we review the different chapters update with the new with the new content we introduce new case studies based on different.

Marzia Bolpagni

Of project and scales, an example that I like for example is a case study from Denmark on how to introduce beam with a low budget. Because there is this idea that is always needs to be very expensive for larger project and so on and also.

Marzia Bolpagni

So we took an example in different part of the world from America, Asia, Europe and Middle East. So really to take a global point of view and into understand how beam is applied in different area for. Infrastructure for buildings, we introduce the concept of digital twins for construction, for facility management.

Marzia Bolpagni

So how the sensor can be linked to the digital representation? It's a topic that is still not, let's say, using every project. So it's something that we want. To uh. Select the best practise and to share with our audience and also we put different new standards and new processes that that we found interesting.

Marzia Bolpagni

Another case study that I want to share if you're interested is that an Italian company for key how they are implementing the digital workflow for a facade. For large scales, probably you. I don't know if you work and you know them, but yeah, it was quite interesting to speak with the different expert and see how manufacture fabricators, not just the designers and contractors.

Marzia Bolpagni

Are implementing beam and also a focus on clients.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, that's a very interesting handbook and encourage everybody to to have a look at that and see if they found anything that can help them learn something new about this industry. You have done so much. You've done books and papers and you are a contributor to the.

Andrea Ciaffi

Development of literature. You you are a speaker, there are so many things you've done, but what's one piece of work you are particularly proud of?

Marzia Bolpagni

I think that's the. Yeah, it's interesting because my profile is is is quite a mix. So I work most of my time in the industry. I help clients international to set their strategy and implement. But I really like also, as I said, knowledge sharing research and.

Marzia Bolpagni

So on and regarding publication, the the work on the level of information need of course is is the word that I'm most proud of. But if I needed to mention another one a few years ago, I added a privilege also to lead them.

Marzia Bolpagni

A research group that is called the European Council of Computing and Construction, and we create a free available dashboard. Maybe I can leave you also the link. So if they listen, I want also to find more information they can and how to search for all the standards regarding beam we keep that.

Andrea Ciaffi

Hmm.

Marzia Bolpagni

Updated every six months, so then is a is a way to because the comment that I often receive it. Oh, there are so many standard I don't understand which one are relevant for me and which one can help my my job. So then we we created these databases so it was a research work.

Marzia Bolpagni

And then we also develop a tool and and the free available dashboard. So that is something that it was a really interesting teamwork and I'm very proud that I've been leading this this effort and now is expanding and the other people are continuing leading and and working on that.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, that's very nice. And I think many people are working on projects everyday. Think about this evolution like they often have been requesting for new standards and new rules. So just to coordinate everybody. I've been in so many conferences and panels where people were asking for standards just to make sure that everybody's aligned,

Marzia Bolpagni

Hmm.

Andrea Ciaffi

but I just want to know you what, what's your point of view about? Like, how can this you do formal research like how can research? Actually influence the the the everyday design on projects. How how can you help with that?

Marzia Bolpagni

It's a very good question and it's a topic that is very close to me because coming from academia and then when I joined the industry, I found out that a lot of people in the industry, really they don't know about research that is happening, they don't have time.

Marzia Bolpagni

Some people, they even they, they don't care. But is that other people that are. Generally. To innovate. They don't go to the trusted source for research, but they maybe search on Google and maybe they prefer to trust someone or linking instead of going to some people that are doing proper research and so on.

Marzia Bolpagni

On the other side, I found people in academia, maybe. That they don't collaborate enough with industry, so maybe they're doing case studies or pilot that maybe are not as advanced of something that is already happening in the industry. So this is I'm speaking generally, of course there are an exception, people that are doing very Advanced Research.

Marzia Bolpagni

And so on. But this is this is sort of reality that is currently a gap and how to fill this this gap. So I'm I believe that beside the traditional research paper that is an output that that is required in academia. And I encourage always the especially the.

Marzia Bolpagni

Younger researcher to then summarise, put some visual trying to make something that is more digestible for the people in the industry that are busy. They don't have time to read maybe eight page or 15 page of research paper. They just want to understand which was the problem and the the solution and to understand how to maybe to follow.

Marzia Bolpagni

The different steps to replicate this sort of process, so there is a way to communicate in a better way that is needed and research that are adopting this approach. I see that they are that are more successful and also there is a possibility for them to start collaboration within.

Marzia Bolpagni

So my advice is also from companies in the industry do ask university in your city, in your country to collaborate because most of the time there are researcher students that they are looking for problems. To be so. And in the industry we have so many problems, and in academia they are lucky to have time.

Marzia Bolpagni

So this in a proper way, they have the knowledge and the methodology. So this collaboration is the reason why I like to go to university to speak to students and trying to help them maybe in their thesis and so on.

Marzia Bolpagni

So if each of us can maybe think about to support one students collaborate with the professor in, in, in, during the year, I think that it would be really a way to to build a better future for the built environment.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, yeah, that's great. And one just to change gear and talk about a topic that I'm very passionate about, which is the female representation in this industry, unfortunately we don't have many, but I can see that it's it is changing that we have more and more women joining the industry, which is very, very nice to see.

Andrea Ciaffi

I just want to know what you think about that and what's your, what's what advice would you give to a young woman that want to join this industry and start working in this space?

Marzia Bolpagni

Thank you. Thank you, Andrea for asking. My advice is really to pick a topic that is interesting for you, something that maybe are curious and go very deep trying to learn from from the best in the industry or in the academia. So for me, it's really about skills.

Marzia Bolpagni

And to be really strong in be confident in in what you want them to to then explore and then to implement that help you to, to be confident and then to let's say to to succeed. But another thing is that find the.

Marzia Bolpagni

Right organisation the right environment where you can flourish because there are so many organisations that try to push back and that don't value you and don't give up if it's maybe your first experience, look for other, let's say other organisation other maybe. The communities and network, another topic for me is really important is mentorship.

Marzia Bolpagni

So ask for a mentor. I've been lucky enough in my career that I've been different mentors, both female and men, and still I have the team that they are help me everyday, especially when I'm struggling. To ask for a different opinion, so that is what I would suggest for the young generation in particularly female, in order to progress in their career.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, definitely agree with you. When you say find the right organisation that can support that. Not all organisations support that the same way I've been likely to work in places where women were supported and were encouraged and therefore they were promoted so.

Marzia Bolpagni

Yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

You need to find the right place where where there is opportunity and don't stop where. If you find barriers, just walk around that wall and find

Marzia Bolpagni

Yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

another space. This is true for men and women, but sometimes for women could be a little bit harder in this industry.

Marzia Bolpagni

Yeah. Definitely.

Andrea Ciaffi

One last topic before the end of this episode is global Trend and new new things that we see all the time. I can't have an episode of this podcast

Marzia Bolpagni

Hmm.

Andrea Ciaffi

without mentioning AI and or without mentioning sustainability and new trends.

Marzia Bolpagni

Dave Presley.

Andrea Ciaffi

So what do you see? What? Trends makes you excited, and what do you think? The future? What do you think we'll see in the future of digital construction?

Marzia Bolpagni

Play song. Yeah. I mean, I like exploring trends and usually try just to write about these as well. I think that AI and ethics is a big, big trend because it's not just about the implementation of AI, but how we implement. So I see more and more clients that they realise, OK, but are you using my?

Marzia Bolpagni

Data to train your let's say your your application and so on. So more and more it's not just client but anyway everyone or just to avoid this black box approach that we put data and we get result. But really we are not really clear of how the.

Marzia Bolpagni

The result is being done a process and and then as being proposed. Then to you back. So the sort of cybersecurity and and and this particular ethics, together with the eye for me, something that it would be more and more explored. We can speak about automation robotics.

Marzia Bolpagni

Again, it's something that is, let's say has been implementing more and more in the in the future again especially for tasks that is they are quick to do so to fill forms, to move files or to generate. To some. That is also something that I see hybrid communication.

Marzia Bolpagni

That is something that we are already experiencing after kovid. We need really to have this possibility of flexibility of to be able to work together in person and to create the.

Marzia Bolpagni

Relationship, but then at the same time to work effectively in an hybrid environment and I really believe in this topic also topic called digital minimalism because we do all the social media and so we are so much distracted. I think that's probably most of you.

Marzia Bolpagni

You watch the phone daily too many times and this is a way of addiction that that we have to the technology and the digital minimalism inside. I think that more and more we will realise that it's important to focus and to do sort of.

Marzia Bolpagni

Deep work, so to let people have the time to innovate and to think differently. And we needed to anticipate that we are not totally immersed to the technology that is somehow is a contradiction because I love technology and so on. But the more that I explored this, I also realised that that is needed and so that is a little bit of trends.

Marzia Bolpagni

That I see moving forward and the increase of the important of leadership, that is a very human skill compared to the EI, we will be able to do task better that we will do more and more in the next year. But the leadership is a very human skill so.

Marzia Bolpagni

How we can improve and inspire people? Direct people giving the right direction and how we can create better leadership. I think that that that will be a trend in the next years.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, thanks, Marcia. We are at the end of the episode. If people want to reach out to you, where can they find you?

Marzia Bolpagni

Different thing on LinkedIn is the best way to to find me so you can ask for a connections. I usually prefer people that send a message because a lot of people, maybe they send just a connection without an introduction. So if you maybe you can say you've been listening to the podcast you're interested to to get in touch.

Marzia Bolpagni

Gotcha. That is the is the the best way to get in touch? Yeah.

Andrea Ciaffi

Thank you, Martha. Martha, this was such an insultful conversation for our listen. Listen, please be sure that you check out the latest Beam handbook. Follow Nima and keep exploring. Our standard can empower better delivery until next time. Thank you, Martha.

Marzia Bolpagni

Thank you very much. Very nice to meet everyone.

Andrea Ciaffi

Good. It was a very good episode. Thank you for that.

Marzia Bolpagni

And you made it on time. Great.

Andrea Ciaffi

Uh.