The State of BIM in 2025 with Rishi Jobanputra

Andrea Ciaffi

There's a long time trying to organize this, but finally we made. And today in our podcast, we are talking about the state of beam in 2025. That's very exciting.

Rishi Jobanputra

Now I can. I'm really looking forward to this podcast to be honest with you.

Andrea Ciaffi

That's great. Thank you. So just before we start, I have couple of icebreaker questions for you. Something very simple and light hearted. If you could take a road trip anywhere in the world, where would you go and what type of snack would you bring with yourself?

Rishi Jobanputra

That's a good question, I guess. I'm in Australia. I obviously moved from the UK and it is a A wish of mine to travel around Australia. It would. Good to, you know, go around all. Different states. Visit the Great Barrier Reef Ocean road.

Rishi Jobanputra

And it'd. A great trip for for me and my family. I've got young kids.

Andrea Ciaffi

Whatever's next, would you bring with? Like if you are doing this road trip, is there anything he would bring with you for you and your family to eat?

Rishi Jobanputra

With my kids and mine, probably something like roasted almonds or something. Only because I know they won't. 00:01:10 Nice, yeah. Won't melt in the heat. In Washington, it gets quite. I can imagine the rest of Australia's pretty warm as well. And I probably probably appreciate the fact that no one else in the car will leave them, especially my family.

Rishi Jobanputra

More for me.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah. So you can. You can't bring Gelato with you probably, unless you bring a fridge and a solar panel. To feed this bridge. Very good, very good. Very good, very good. 00:01:35 Exactly. Exactly.

Rishi Jobanputra

High protein. Andrea, as a fellow swimmer.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, we need. We need to stay healthy and fit as usual. Another question, if you could have any superpower to make a construction project go perfectly. I know it's harder. So what type of superpower would you pick?

Rishi Jobanputra

I guess for me it it has. Focus on, you know. Aligning and educating people. I guess maybe a superpower of being able to hypnotize people. One of the biggest.

Andrea Ciaffi

If you guys.

Rishi Jobanputra

Yeah. One of the biggest frustrations I have in my role is. Know being able to manage expectations and I think if we can from the start in our space you know align with collaboration. Planning how we set things up. I think it's really important.

Rishi Jobanputra

So yeah, I know it's a bit of a weird one, but I'd like to be able to hypnotize people. Think it would make my life a. Of.

Andrea Ciaffi

A lot easier. Make sure that everybody behaves like a machine. So yeah, that would be great. 00:02:37 I think just gay.

Rishi Jobanputra

I think just getting everyone on the same page to be honest with. Andrea, I think often.

Andrea Ciaffi

Sure.

Rishi Jobanputra

We all have the best intentions and sometimes we. A good plan. But I. The issue we have sometimes it's just the the alignment of our thoughts and what the goal is that we want to. Chief.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, that's a that's a great. One of the things I would like my superpower, if I could pick one, would probably be the ability to predict the future. So if something goes wrong, at least I already know I can be prepared and think about.

Andrea Ciaffi

So yeah, but even even your ability to coordinate everybody, so that shows the importance of coordination and these type of projects. It's very, very important. Yeah. Thanks.

Rishi Jobanputra

All right.

Andrea Ciaffi

So I don't know many people know about your story and your life. We've been friends for a long. We've been working together in the past and and I know and I've been looking.

Andrea Ciaffi

Watching your career evolve and it's been an incredible journey and I think and I'm actually sure that people will be very, very inspired to know more about your journey and how you transition from all of the different stages of. Beam and career and the different roles.

Andrea Ciaffi

So would you mind sharing with us your story and your journey when? Started probably back in the UK and then transition to Perth so we can mention you are you live in Perth and now in your current role as a global and Australasian beam leader, which is very, very exciting.

Rishi Jobanputra

Thank you. How long have you got? I'll try and. This. I began my career as a 20 year old. I guess in the. Aec industry. So in building engineering, building services, engineering. I started a small consultancy. After leaving what they call the A levels.

Rishi Jobanputra

And yeah, joined a a small small office. Taking on a drafters role and helping with engineering, so really focusing on being an engineering technician, which really kind of paved the way for me cuz it brought together the learning that I was getting. They sent me to college one day a week.

Rishi Jobanputra

And then they got me to work. Four days within the office as as well as to go to site. And I think that early experience really got me enthusiastic about what could be achieved. Maybe use? Or maybe it was the fact that I had to spend the first year folding drawings and filing filing documents.

Rishi Jobanputra

If you look at stuff long enough, finally, when they get you to actually, you know, get hands. You you get really involved. 00:05:13 Old. Thereafter, I had the opportunity from going from a small goldfish bowl. To a big. Pond, which was Arab, so I enjoyed that.

Rishi Jobanputra

I was quite young in my career. And joined as an entry level technician. And that was a huge jump for me working on some really large projects. Aquatic Center, Marseille Tower, Mashad and some really cool projects working on the Camden office. And then over the years.

Rishi Jobanputra

Through CAD and BIM roles, and then evolving to some form of digital engineering, I transferred to Australasia. Perth came over here to support a company to deliver a project. Which was Optus Stadium at the time and to be honest with you, that was a huge experience, a learning curve for us all all involved, to be honest with you and and great colleagues and friends that.

Rishi Jobanputra

I've kind of. Picked up along the way through all of. Major projects. Working through in Singapore, major projects there. As well as locally. And you're having a knack for firefighting. In a weird kind of. I love love trying to solve problems and I think over time with experience, rather than trying to solve problems, you know the key now is to plan for them.

Rishi Jobanputra

As I said, to try and hypnotize people. Or at least manage. So really interesting, I guess career to a certain degree for me. And for me, the biggest takeaways were. Well, I worked with.

Rishi Jobanputra

And the problems we overcome that that is my, I guess my credit for the for the future projects I work on, I was kind of drawback on the experiences and the people I've worked with so. Hopefully that gives. A bit of a flavor of where I've come.

Rishi Jobanputra

And what I'm trying to achieve.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, that's amazing. Thank you. Like I think you've been very humble in telling the story of how you evolved in your career. Been able to witness your your, your evolution and.

Andrea Ciaffi

And I know people like in your career at RP is an amazing company that gives people fantastic experience and opportunity to work on incredible projects and also the people that work in that company are also incredible because they're always very happy to. Help each other and over the many, many the last in the past like you became the go to person for all things being.

Andrea Ciaffi

I know there are. If anyone has a problem, but not just an ARP. If anyone is probably about beam. They can come to you and you always have a solution which is pretty incredible. Considering the exposures that you have across many countries and different rules, so I'm very excited about this chart today.

Rishi Jobanputra

No, just to add. I just wanna say the most important thing for me is not the solutions that I'm aware of. It's the. Work of people that you have. And I think if. If I can pass on any kind of words of. It would be.

Rishi Jobanputra

You know, focus on building that community and that network cuz you don't need to know everything as long as people around you know, you know, it's about finding the solutions and helping people move forward. Cheers.

Andrea Ciaffi

100% agree. Thank you, Rishi. So. So let's let's start talking about the main topic today, which is the state of beam in 2025. But before we think about 2025, let's recap what happened in the past, just to give a little bit of context.

Andrea Ciaffi

So Rishi, from your point of view. As beam evolved in the last few years, and what milestone do we think we have reached in 2025? Know you have seen beam from the very, very. You mentioned that you started working in this industry like folding drawings that were actually on paper on physical paper and then probably transition to.

Andrea Ciaffi

This stuff in autogap and and now. The beam space has evolved a lot with different software. Is not just Revit or just Autodesk. What do you? How do you think the beam space is evolved in the last few years?

Rishi Jobanputra

I guess there's. Open collaboration. I think there's less less silos with software in particular as well. I think the processes have always been. You know, we always have an appreciation that we want to produce, you know. Our documentation and our models to to a high standard as much as we can, but I think that, you know, the advent of.

Rishi Jobanputra

Being able to leverage things like automation, data-driven design have really changed the way we operate in the last decade or so. Know all those mundane tasks. You know, I'm on projects at the moment and a pivotal moment for us now is. Not how can we solve the problem, but how can we?

Rishi Jobanputra

How can we prepare and solve the problem through tools and automation and let people focus on what's important which is designing? I do think that technology has disrupted this a little bit in the sense that some of those core principles, some of that core education and experience, is probably not brought through.

Rishi Jobanputra

And software is trying to to to fill that gap. I just think, yeah, we're at where our moment in 2025. Where we can really leverage. Automation and data-driven design and use all the technology tools to deliver. I think if I could say anything, it would be BIM is a subset of digital engineering.

Rishi Jobanputra

And I think now the industry is in a position to embrace that. It's no longer a specialist skill.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, that, that's that's a very, very good point. I I know that you have been championing a great initiative in explaining to this industry and still in our our beam should be its own discipline. Like we know that the industry is aware that structural engineering, mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

Andrea Ciaffi

Sibelius a long list of. Disciplines, but you champion this idea that beam should be its own disciplines, and then that evolved as you mentioned before, from just being building information modeling into what we call digital engineering. Do you have anything else to add in terms of beam as a discipline?

Andrea Ciaffi

Know that it's a it's a topic that is close to your heart.

Rishi Jobanputra

Yeah. I think for me the the focus on BIM as a discipline is is to ensure that it's not considered as just an output. To to ensure that it's considered as an engineering discipline. From design all the way through to construction and asset management.

Rishi Jobanputra

And I. That's where I I really wanted to try and elevate it, especially within our to give kudos to the, to the, to the team members, but also to give them a. 20 a career pathway that not only benefits them, but is efficient to Arab.

Rishi Jobanputra

Know we don't need whichever company we don't. You know people that are tracers. We need people that are really going to take engineering designs and document them and coordinate them.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, I think that the beam beam has enabled that in a way that it's kind of like unique because if you are inside a 3D3D environment in a model, you can actually see. Things that the traditional engineers were not able to see in the past because you can actually see and touch.

Andrea Ciaffi

Probably not touch physically, but you can actually have the feeling of what that part of the building or the piece of infrastructure looks like. And that's how, from my point of view, the importance of the people in the digital engineering or being teams.

Andrea Ciaffi

Brings a lot of value to this industry and I seen I've seen out as evolved over the last few years and that's a very exciting space and to see how this will evolve in the future. As well, do you? Speaking about again beam and new words and definitions, we already mentioned by digital engineering, we are not just talking about beam.

Andrea Ciaffi

It's not about digital and engineering together. Can you think? Have you seen any new definitions in the beam space that in the way it's understood and applied to different projects, for example or different industries? You work. In the building space, but also in the infrastructure space.

Andrea Ciaffi

Have you seen like new definitions or new words or new way to in addition to digital engineering?

Rishi Jobanputra

I think a lot of the definitions in terms focus on the same sort of stuff. There's variations to those definitions. But what really stands out to me are the are the definitions within standards. Those are the ones that can be agnostic, and those are the ones that I guess should be adopted on projects.

Rishi Jobanputra

Something like ISO 19650 has a series of definitions. I think it's really important that everyone in the industry understands those because from my perspective, whether it's a leader pointing party, a point in party. Appointed. It's it's all. About information and that waterfall effect of information coming from the client down.

Rishi Jobanputra

And sometimes it can be confusing if you don't understand some of that terminology. Ears, Aires and so on, and how that flows. I think that's the key. Otherwise, a lot of the other definitions are usually developed by industry or by software vendors. 00:15:20 Those.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah. And that gives us a very good segue to talk about the latest standards. You just mentioned ISO 19650.

Rishi Jobanputra

Do you?

Andrea Ciaffi

Do you see that this this new standard are widely applied in the industry, or do you see a level of resistance from the client point of view from the design teams point of view? What's your experience at the moment and to the level?

Andrea Ciaffi

Thinking about the level of adoption of this new? Relatively new standards.

Rishi Jobanputra

Yeah. So I've had a pretty good experience in that, you know, quite a few projects, so kind of embedded ISO 19650 principles or even the standard as a whole if if required however. I recently done some certification so with BSI for BIM management and asset management and that really went through the ISO 19650 standard in detail.

Rishi Jobanputra

I really think that kind of education piece along with delivery on projects is a really good learner and experience because that standard itself is really important. Kind of provides the gateways for information. And not just from BIM, but for the entire project and digital engineering.

Rishi Jobanputra

So I think it's really important we follow this where possible. It's not adopted on all. It's adopted on major projects, some infrastructure projects. Especially in Australasia, but more so in the UK, quite heavily adopted. I think it's going to be the the way forward in terms of how projects are set up and it provides some guidance and some accountability.

Rishi Jobanputra

00:17:01 Do.

Andrea Ciaffi

You think that the assistance or the lack of adoption come from clients or come from engineering team from Beam team? What do you? It's not applied across the board. Is. Is that too much work? To apply the standards, there's too much work or it requires too much knowledge for the beam and the engineering team to apply it.

Andrea Ciaffi

Stopping us from applying that across every single project globally, from your point of view.

Rishi Jobanputra

Preparing. You know, preparing on a project ISO 19650 is a standard starts at the beginning. It starts with the client providing lessons learned. You know clear templates on what they want achieved all the way down through to the appointing party.

Rishi Jobanputra

So I think it's there's, there's not necessarily resistance, but I just think it's a awareness and an education piece because all of those are processes that you can. But the keys around awareness, education and implementing that on projects.

Rishi Jobanputra

So if you're gonna do at the start of a project the capability assessment, that means you have to do them on every project and you have to get everyone to fill them out within a template. 00:18:15 That. Type of kind of adoption is required.

Andrea Ciaffi

It's always hard to find the right balance between introducing new standards to improve the the work and then increasing the the effort in a way that that becomes the only thing you end up doing just following the standard and not designing the building.

Andrea Ciaffi

So yeah. It's. It's a big challenge for industry, but I can see I can see your. Thanks. One thing I wanted to mention that I think it's it's a great achievement and very, very ambitious project that as a company globally started is what they call the.

Andrea Ciaffi

Arab global global standard and for what? I know, I would like to know more from your point of view. Like we know that when you create a Revit model, you will have to call the different things in different ways and depending on where you are all around the world.

Andrea Ciaffi

This name? Cool party. Because of languages or because cultural differences? So an example that comes to mind is the. That in Australia we call hydraulic engineers hydraulic engineers, but they are called public health engineers in the UK. So as soon as you start looking at this.

Andrea Ciaffi

Just for one discipline. Then imagine all the different systems and all of the different worlds associated to that specific. So I know it's a big, big challenge for the industry to find a way to standardize all of the names and good naming convention and.

Andrea Ciaffi

Standards. So could you share with us the journey and how big this challenge was and and all the benefit that has brought to our over the years?

Rishi Jobanputra

Yeah, like you say, I think it was a huge achievement for the company. And all involved. It's a step in the right direction, you know. Gone are the days where different regions, different countries and this is for every company. Different regions. Different countries have folders with families for.

Rishi Jobanputra

Like Reddit. And you know, there's a lot. Rework and the use of wrong wrong. I. Think what happened was in particular in Arabs cases they found the. So we came together as different regions and decided to adopt and combine our efforts within one company.

Rishi Jobanputra

This provided a whole array of content that we've created. As you say that that marries across different regions, different disciplines with consistent naming. Consistent conversion of languages. So it's it's a huge benefit to us.

Rishi Jobanputra

You know, over the last couple of years, it's taken some time to to embed that into all projects, but we're now in a position where we've embedded that on projects and it's BAU and now we're in a position where we're looking at. Providing the local nuances, there's a fine line between producing a global standard.

Rishi Jobanputra

But then still providing a little bit of control locally, whether that's to you know populate metadata or. Some particular type of naming or classifications we've developed tools that allow us to to push this database of templates and standards. With clear configuration that's required locally, so I think we're in a really good position with the global Revit standard.

Rishi Jobanputra

But as you mentioned it, yeah, it's been a journey. Definitely. And again, once again, it's got nothing to do with creation. We have smart people that have created all of the content. It's always about adoption and implementation and getting everyone on the same page.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, it's always like. You can like to drive innovation. You need adoption. Innovation does not happen if there is no. If there is no. Otherwise, the tools that you create just sit in somewhere and people forget about it. But the idea that art starting this journey to to attempt to improve in this space and of course like any like big missions, would require some challenges.

Andrea Ciaffi

There are obstacles and road bumps along the way, but. Incredible. Like what they started. Do you want to add anything about that or? 00:22:37 Yeah, I.

Rishi Jobanputra

I was just going to mention as well that I guess the the the key with the the the Revit standard that we've developed or a standard that anyone develops isn't necessarily the parts and pieces of the content is the data structure of the background.

Rishi Jobanputra

So that meant that if we were using Revit and Dynamo to do some. Emergency lighting calculations or pressure drop calculations in a different part of the world. As long as they use the same shared parameter file, it meant that we could. Potentially adopt those scripts and those tools and automation so.

Rishi Jobanputra

The bigger prize? Is the innovation the short term prize is the content and the families, so everyone can model straightaway.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, very, very good point. And Speaking of innovation. There is this like point that this artificial intelligence that everybody talks about it all industry talk about it and we know that the construction industry in general is a little bit slower than average. I would say in adopting new technologies.

Andrea Ciaffi

Now we have this new technology, artificial intelligence, that existed before. But now it's exploding. Everybody talks about. Do you see at the moment any adoptions of artificial intelligence in B mode, or do you think that this will open soon? Is this another case of yeah, the construction industry will join the party potentially later.

Rishi Jobanputra

Yeah, I see it happening now. I see it evolving on projects. But I think we have to do it with some caution and you have. Remember that. A lot of the the stuff that we deliver a lot of the project work that we work on is all based on skill and and then I guess intellect people have gone to university, people have studied and experienced various projects.

Rishi Jobanputra

We just. To be careful in the sense that we don't create a samurai sword to to cut an. You know, I've seen one particular tool recently that links directly to the River API and just takes all the commands as gospel. And.

Andrea Ciaffi

You.

Rishi Jobanputra

No. Think of the damage one person could do if you had connected directly to the API, but then on the other side of things I've seen where we're able to use AI to help with classification systems. Stuff that's related to standards and guidance where we have to repopulate information, that kind of mundane.

Rishi Jobanputra

Kind of simpler task is resolvable with. It's just going to be interesting as we go. How we tether the use of AI for functional use that can can deliver quality and? You have to remember we're still delivering, you know, engineering designs. So there needs to be some integrity to be considered.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, that's. Because, like artificial intelligence. Kind of. It's a little bit more flexible in the way that allows errors and mistakes to happen and and there is a there is a different level of forgiveness when it's artificial intelligence. If you compare with the construction industry and which is probably why the adoption could potentially be SL.

Andrea Ciaffi

Some other parallel funding the right direction? Where can we channel these tools in a way that? They don't break the system by the same time they improve the help us with the productivity and overall improve the build world for all of us. I know it's hard to predict the future.

Andrea Ciaffi

And none of us has the crystal ball. And also we know that the past performance could not be indicative of future performance in the industry as well. So but if you try to think about emerging trends and what you think could shape the future of being over the next, let's say 5-10 years, what do you think it could possibly happen in the next 5-10 years?

Andrea Ciaffi

Should we? Keep an eye on.

Rishi Jobanputra

I think. It's probably 2 answers there. I would wish to happen, which has been a a prophecy that people have told me for the last 10 years and I've witnessed it occur is, you know producing models without drawings. I think you know in the future that would be a game changer.

Rishi Jobanputra

We spend so much time on documentation. That, you know, often that that slows things down. And sometimes the the quality of the documentation from varying parties. Just. So if we could ever go down a route where, you know, a model only delivery, I think that would that would be a game changer.

Rishi Jobanputra

I would love for that to happen. But I suspect there's some issues in and around, you know, contractual information and and and, you know, making sure things are right. Where things could evolve, I think, as you say, AI is coming. I think we need to focus more on machine learning than.

Rishi Jobanputra

I think we need to look at what we know and how we deliver it and see how we can enhance that. But being has a huge part to play in things. All things related to sustainable development. You know, I'm on a lot of projects now where people are asking about carbon tracking, but this all comes back down.

Rishi Jobanputra

To proper planning, you know, if we're on a project and you you wanna undertake carbon tracking or achieve other sustainable development goals, we have to plan and prepare. 00:28:14 Replay. Have to embed that metadata. We have to break models down in a certain.

Rishi Jobanputra

So I think these trends. Around artificial intelligence, sustainable development are really going to enhance the way we deliver projects and and really take it towards what everyone else considers is. You know that digital twin. I think I know we're going off topic, but.

Rishi Jobanputra

Know there's. This huge kind of conversation around digital twin, but really all of the processes that we need to undertake will deliver that eventually. And I think if we embed that within one process. Is BIM. Would that be digital engineering? Which is now I guess.

Rishi Jobanputra

The the clear direction I. Yeah, that that's the future trend for us is, is in moving forward.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, that's. I really look forward to see where the industry is going and all of this innovation is coming and there are. Some maybe buzz words, but also technologies that we have seen in the past, like virtual reality or augmented reality. That emerged in the past and at some point, every time one of these new things emerges.

Andrea Ciaffi

People are. Some people get excited. We also in the past were talking about IoT, Internet of Things, so integrity sensors in Bing models. Do. What happened to these technologies like do you think that they? Have been embedded in our projects or somewhat embedded, but what happens?

Andrea Ciaffi

They going to disappear from your point of view.

Rishi Jobanputra

I think some of those technologies initially came in into time, maybe a little bit too early. And I think what will happen over the coming years is those technologies will be used to support the delivery of projects. I think when when we're moving away from the fact that all being able to use virtual reality, I can walk around my office and do clash Det.

Rishi Jobanputra

Who has time to do that, you know? So the, I guess the fluffy part of it has now been weeded out. And I think now we need to look at how can we focus on using this technology for functional use. I think ARV.

Rishi Jobanputra

You know, reality capture IoT, they're all extremely relevant, but I think there's a time and a place and A and a function on a project so. Only then will it be adopted properly.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, that's very good point. Instead of you need to apply the right tool to the right problem. Instead of having a solution looking for problems. 00:30:51 It it. 00:30:58 Yeah. So at the beginning, probably this technologies, these tools were solutions looking for problems they have probably identified the problems they could solve.

Andrea Ciaffi

Now solve those problems and as you said, as you said, like all of the fluff is probably now. Not there anymore. So it's interesting to see how they are becoming. Business as usual, and nobody's not surprised anymore when they see these tools.

Rishi Jobanputra

It's a tool for your tool belt, so it's one of 10 things you know, whether that's visual scripting, automation, data validation, clash detection. These are all important things that I think you need to have in your tool belt. When you are on a project and you do overcome, you do come across problems.

Rishi Jobanputra

You have solutions rather than the other. Around like you said.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, definitely. And Speaking of tools, I want to talk about another another very interesting topic that I know is close to your heart, which is the training and education and how to improve, help people improve and upskill. So we know that. This is a this.

Andrea Ciaffi

Is a a technology like beam and digital engineering that it could be relatively new in terms of. Like if you think how the education systems evolve over time. The certain disciplines have been there for a long, long time structure engineering. Has been there for.

Andrea Ciaffi

Long long time. So they. They have a time to prepare their training, their education system, their way to validate their training. And while at the same time, when you look at beam and digital engineering this. Discipline, as evolved relatively recently in comparison with the other disciplines.

Andrea Ciaffi

So do you see any gap in terms of training institutions that are able to train the workforce to support the industry? What do you think we need to do from the training point of view to prepare the industry and the different companies that are working in this space?

Rishi Jobanputra

Yeah, I I do think there's a. Gap I came from a background as I said, coming through as an apprentice and I learnt along the way. 20 years later, I have somewhat of an understanding of, you know, what we do and how we deliver and you know.

Rishi Jobanputra

I've I've gained some. So how do you replicate that in education is very difficult, you know, I guess the way you I try and kind of portray that is how do we get everyone match fit? To be able to work on projects and deliver.

Rishi Jobanputra

And I just think that there is that huge gap in industry and we are trying to fill it with individual courses. As I said, I did a certification recently and then management, but then there's lots of other topics around automation, data analytics. Coordination.

Rishi Jobanputra

So we really as an industry need to solve that problem. And not only solve it, I guess, for the people that we work with, but grassroots. We need to ensure that there is an influx of people coming through from school to Taf or to university.

Rishi Jobanputra

Into projects, whether that's broadly in digital engineering or a subset of digital engineering, whether it's BIM or GIS or what have you, so that they can kind of navigate into digital engineering. I think we really need to focus on that vocation path. And look at grassroots as well.

Rishi Jobanputra

Because you know. Otherwise, there's there's nothing behind us and we need to make sure that this job, this role and the area we work in. We make it look. And there is a pathway for people to follow.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah. And I think it's so important that the people that if people see that there is a training, a, a path for them, they can aspire to have a career in this space. And I also understand it's challenging because this discipline keep on keeps on evolving and we we record podcast episodes about the state of beam in 2025 because we know it's evolving.

Andrea Ciaffi

It's a moving target. It's hard. Very good training for this specific purpose. But yeah, it's certainly a space that it's interesting to watch and see how it evolves. Do you want to have anything about training or? 00:35:27 Yeah, I can.

Rishi Jobanputra

I can follow up a little more in the fact that we are seeing some effects of digital engineering come through, whether. So that's through university courses or units as well as smaller 6 to 8 week run sessions. I think these are all great and provide a good training for the.

Rishi Jobanputra

Cause but that does need to be supplemented with something a little bit more. Kind of. Australian specific you know as a some form of accreditation, I think and and yeah, watch this space. You never know something might come through.

Andrea Ciaffi

Yeah, that's amazing. Thanks. So I think we we are at the end of our episodes and just before we leave, if people want to reach out to you, Rishi, what I can fund you.

Rishi Jobanputra

Yeah. Contact me on LinkedIn. I have a open door policy. Please do reach. I'm more than happy to. To kind of talk to people or share my experiences. If if they want.

Andrea Ciaffi

Thank you very much. This was a great episode and until next time have a good day. You. Thank you.